JW angst again - same BS, different command hierarchy

[_Sethbag]

Abman, I talked to a lot of JWs on my mission, and read some of their books. It became my impression, as a believing LDS, that the JWs were almost completely and totally wrong on almost every level of almost everything they believe and teach. Only at the very, very highest level of "Jesus died for our sins" were they right, and if you dig too deeply into what they actually mean by that, you'd find they had the details all wrong there too.

JWs believe Adam's Fall was unfortunate, and we've been paying the price for his folly ever since. To a JW, Christ's atonement was essentially "Plan B". They deny the fundemental necessity for the Fall and the subsequent Atonement, in contradiction to the "truth" the LDS have on the subject.

JWs believe that human beings don't have an immortal spirit. They believe that we are only alive so long as our bodies are alive, and that when we die, that's it. Lights out, nobody home, etc. We simply don't exist anymore, except in Jehovah's memory of us. They utterly deny the pre-existence of human beings as spirits, and they utterly deny the post-mortal existence of these spirits in a Spirit World. This is all in direct contradiction of "the Truth" according to LDS.

Which leads us to the next topics, which include that only those who are righteous will be resurrected by Jehovah at the last day, and since we stopped existing at our deaths, Jehovah will recreate the righteous from his infinite memory of how they were. In essence, Jehovah restores the righteous from backup. The wicked are simply not re-created by Jehovah. They stopped existing when they died, and will never exist again. This is all in direct contradiction to the LDS "Truth".

They believe that 144,000 righteous people will be saved in Heaven, where God and Jesus dwell, and that the rest of the righteous will live forever on a paradise on earth. Everyone will have their own plot of land, and raise vegetables, and be happy, and there won't be anymore wars, and everyone will have their own little pink pony. Ok, not the ponies. They deny the existence of Outer Darkness, the Telestial, Terrestrial, and Celestial Kingdoms, in contradiction to the LDS "Truth".

It's interesting that in the JWs they have a sacrament-like service once per year at their annual Lord's Evening Meal, but only those people who "know" that they will be part of the 144,000 partake. A friend of mine at work, who grew up JW, tells me that each year fewer and fewer people throughout the JWs partake.

JWs don't believe in an ordained priesthood in the way LDS do. They deny the need for anything like the LDS temple, or any of the ceremonies performed there.

When you get right down to it, they've only got the "standoff distance, squint a bit and it kinda looks like it" view that Jesus died for our sins, that you shouldn't smoke or have sex outside of marriage, or say the word "f***". Aside from that, they really don't have anything right theologically. So please stop the excuses so common to modern apologists, who allow for other churches to have so much truth, as if to justify the apparent contradiction when others receive a witness of their (non-LDS) church. Theologically speaking, from a believing LDS person's perspective, the JWs are dead wrong.

And it's absurd to argue that the reason ex-JWs have such a similar experience to exmos is that Satan is trying to turn them off toward all religion so that they will not recognize the LDS church and join it. Likewise, it's absurd to argue that God can't make it too obvious that the LDS church really is the unique and true church because then we couldn't act on faith, because again, we'd know.

[_The Dude]

Only at the very, very highest level of "Jesus died for our sins" were they right, and if you dig too deeply into what they actually mean by that, you'd find they had the details all wrong there too.

Considering Abman's reservations about the LDS atonement, maybe he should look into the details the JW atonement and see if it makes more sense to him.

[_asbestosman]

When you get right down to it, they've only got the "standoff distance, squint a bit and it kinda looks like it" view that Jesus died for our sins, that you shouldn't smoke or have sex outside of marriage, or say the word "f***". Aside from that, they really don't have anything right theologically. So please stop the excuses so common to modern apologists, who allow for other churches to have so much truth, as if to justify the apparent contradiction when others receive a witness of their (non-LDS) church. Theologically speaking, from a believing LDS person's perspective, the JWs are dead wrong.

That's the JW's. What about the Catholics, Evangelicals, Methodists, Baptists, etc.? They seem to have a lot more in common with us.

And it's absurd to argue that the reason ex-JWs have such a similar experience to exmos is that Satan is trying to turn them off toward all religion so that they will not recognize the LDS church and join it. Likewise, it's absurd to argue that God can't make it too obvious that the LDS church really is the unique and true church because then we couldn't act on faith, because again, we'd know.

Heck, don't you think it's absurd to argue that God even exists in the first place? I mean let's cut to the chase. So long as I believe in said God and that said God interacts with us, it seems that the world we live in is such that God isn't making it too obvious. From that one might wonder why that is. While I have some questions about faith, it is yet my understanding that it is a necessity for our growth here on Earth.

Just because I don't understand faith or the atonement very well doesn't mean I think they are nonsensical.

[_The Dude]

Just because I don't understand faith or the atonement very well doesn't mean I think they are nonsensical.

What would it take to make it nonsensical, then?

[_SatanWasSetUp]

That's the JW's. What about the Catholics, Evangelicals, Methodists, Baptists, etc.? They seem to have a lot more in common with us.

I would guess the JWs are closer to truth than the sects you listed above. Those sects are the ones God pointed out as corrupt and abominations in 1820.

[_asbestosman]

That's the JW's. What about the Catholics, Evangelicals, Methodists, Baptists, etc.? They seem to have a lot more in common with us.

I would guess the JWs are closer to truth than the sects you listed above. Those sects are the ones God pointed out as corrupt and abominations in 1820.

Maybe 7DA's is where it's almost at after all.

[_asbestosman]

Just because I don't understand faith or the atonement very well doesn't mean I think they are nonsensical.

What would it take to make it nonsensical, then?

I do not have a good answer off the top of my head.

[_beastie]

Jesus died for our sins, that you shouldn't smoke or have sex outside of marriage, or say the word "f***"

Don't forget you shouldn't have an abortion, and homosexuality is really, really, bad, and you've just about summed up most religion in my part of the world.

I have long thought that it really would be much worse to be a JW than a Mormon, for various reasons. One, they do that tracting thing their entire lives. OMG, that's enough to turn me off right there. Two, they discourage education. Three, they MAKE family members shun apostates at the risk of losing their own membership.

It makes Mormonism look like a friendly and sensible religion.

[_asbestosman]

It makes Mormonism look like a friendly and sensible religion.

But we are! Haven't you seen those "family, it's about time" ads? ;)

[_beastie]

But we are! Haven't you seen those "family, it's about time" ads? ;)

Why yes, and they sure do have a lot of african-americans in them!