Ray A is banned (soon)

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_why me
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Re: Ray A is banned (soon)

Post by _why me »

Wilma Fingerdoo wrote:
why me wrote:Does the postmormon site have a dubious agenda? According to Ray A it does.


Why Me,
The only agenda Post Mormon has is to avoid dealing with Richard Craniums like Ray and you. When I troll over on the MADB site I get the same treatment from them as you did/do from Post Mormon. When I get banned at MADB I don't go whining to other boards about MADB being unfair, its their board and their rules. I don't know why you have such a boner against Post Mormon and their "policies"? It is beyond me maybe you need a blessing to get the contention out of you soul. I even have some consecrated oil left over from my TBM days and can give you a post Mormon blessing of comfort but it will be my anniversary soon and the oil might be used up for other purposes so let me know soon. It seems pathetic that you can't move on. I have read at least 4 posts started by you on different sites about post Mormon. I guess if Post Mormon is you windmill then you need to flail away Don Quioxte.

Well, I know that the truth hurts. Their mission statement does not reflect the discussion board. In exmo terms, I feel betrayed and angered by the hidden agenda. (sound familiar ;=))I came on the site expecting a wide range of conversation as depicted in their mission statement. Instead, I experienced a lot of negativity about the LDS and about me as a person. They brought to the fore just who they may have been (in my opinion) as TBMs: judgemental, intolerant and one-sided as to what a postmo is.

I do think that they need to change the mission statement to reflect their true purpose: to mock the LDS faith and celebrate the church's downfall. It has nothing to do with butteffly wings and self discovery as personified by Einstein. Their mission statement should make clear that the site is a recovery site and that the members on the board are far from the happy butterflies that their propaganda posters depict.
_beastie
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Post by _beastie »

Ray seems to disagree with your analysis of postmo, by the way.

Do you complain frequently about MAD's biased moderating? I don't recall seeing you do so. Why not?
We hate to seem like we don’t trust every nut with a story, but there’s evidence we can point to, and dance while shouting taunting phrases.

Penn & Teller

http://www.mormonmesoamerica.com
_Pokatator
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Post by _Pokatator »

Why me

You are one continuous broken record and boy do you get old fast. That is "why you" have so much trouble everywhere except at MAD. From your posts to mms we know that you are a brown noser and an *** kisser at MAD.

How about answering my question?

Or replying to Beastie's last post.

Who appointed you the judge, jury and executioner? More holier-than-thou posts today, how about something original, how about answering the questions that have been asked?

Pokatator

Welcome to the board Wilma, great post!
I think it would be morally right to lie about your religion to edit the article favorably.
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_why me
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Post by _why me »

beastie wrote:Ray seems to disagree with your analysis of postmo, by the way.

Do you complain frequently about MAD's biased moderating? I don't recall seeing you do so. Why not?

I do think that Ray got the royal treatment. At first there was some bristling. But they did sweet talk him to death. At least you were faithful to your position and did not sugar coat your feelings. If Ray will continue to look in, he will see the general disdain toward the LDS church with very little of its positive message that the postmos took with them, accoding to their mission statement.

MAADs mission statement is very clear. Also, it is common knowledge that critics will be culled if they begin to out number the LDS. I remember that this was once mentioned. My problem with Postmo is their mission statement. I bought into it and was duly punished for doing so. I was very postmo, inactive member who went to them to clear my thoughts and to post postmo ideas about life with people who claimed that they were beyond Mormonism in their mission statement. and yes, I did defend the LDS church against the over generalizations on the board about Mormonism.

Of course I have changed now. I am more informed now and stronger for it. I like their mission statement...it sounds good....but it has nothing to do with their postmo recovery discussion board.
_why me
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Post by _why me »

Pokatator wrote:Why me

You are one continuous broken record and boy do you get old fast. That is "why you" have so much trouble everywhere except at MAD. From your posts to mms we know that you are a brown noser and an *** kisser at MAD.

How about answering my question?

Or replying to Beastie's last post.

Who appointed you the judge, jury and executioner? More holier-than-thou posts today, how about something original, how about answering the questions that have been asked?

Pokatator

Welcome to the board Wilma, great post!

I have very little problems here also. I can dialogue with people without them calling me names or being rude. Okay, PP is an exception to the rule but that is okay. I don't mind. I also post on another board and all is fine there too. I think that I get along well with the critics on MAD. If you have read some of my posts on MAD you will see a person who has moderate views and who is rather fair. I can also be critical of the LDS church.
_Dr. Shades
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Post by _Dr. Shades »

why me wrote:I think that I get along well with the critics on MAD.


There are critics on MAD?
"Finally, for your rather strange idea that miracles are somehow linked to the amount of gay sexual gratification that is taking place would require that primitive Christianity was launched by gay sex, would it not?"

--Louis Midgley
_Pokatator
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Post by _Pokatator »

Pokatator wrote:
Hi Jeff (Ricks), feel free to engage in censorship (just like MADB does), and delete this thread, and the link. I fully understand. The truth hurts. Get rid of truth: Press "delete".


At least Ray acknowledges what the MADB does!

Do you agree, Why Me?


3 days and you can't answer a simple question and it's a yes or no question at that!!
I think it would be morally right to lie about your religion to edit the article favorably.
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_beastie
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Post by _beastie »

I do think that Ray got the royal treatment. At first there was some bristling. But they did sweet talk him to death. At least you were faithful to your position and did not sugar coat your feelings. If Ray will continue to look in, he will see the general disdain toward the LDS church with very little of its positive message that the postmos took with them, accoding to their mission statement.

MAADs mission statement is very clear. Also, it is common knowledge that critics will be culled if they begin to out number the LDS. I remember that this was once mentioned. My problem with Postmo is their mission statement. I bought into it and was duly punished for doing so. I was very postmo, inactive member who went to them to clear my thoughts and to post postmo ideas about life with people who claimed that they were beyond Mormonism in their mission statement. and yes, I did defend the LDS church against the over generalizations on the board about Mormonism.

Of course I have changed now. I am more informed now and stronger for it. I like their mission statement...it sounds good....but it has nothing to do with their postmo recovery discussion board.


Please prove, by quoting directly from the respective websites, that postmormon is being hypocritical while MAD is totally upfront.

And referring to "common knowledge" doesn't cut it.
We hate to seem like we don’t trust every nut with a story, but there’s evidence we can point to, and dance while shouting taunting phrases.

Penn & Teller

http://www.mormonmesoamerica.com
_Runtu
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Post by _Runtu »

beastie wrote:
Please prove, by quoting directly from the respective websites, that postmormon is being hypocritical while MAD is totally upfront.

And referring to "common knowledge" doesn't cut it.


That's pretty funny that they cull critics when they outnumber the apologists. That has never happened, to my knowledge. What did happen is that MorningStar complained that the critics were getting too numerous, and suddenly a whole bunch of us got banned without warning.

And I defy anyone to come up with a clear statement up front from MAD that they protect apologists while holding a different standard for apologists. For proof that apologists say what critics can't, one word: Pahoran.
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If you just talk, I find that your mouth comes out with stuff. -- Karl Pilkington
_beastie
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Post by _beastie »

Although I’ve read both before, I reread the board guidelines of each respective board.

There is nothing on MAD’s board guidelines that openly admits the bias for believers and against critics, including the aforementioned “culling” policy. Here’s what I found that states treatment is not “fair”:

http://www.mormonapologetics.org/index. ... boardrules

Do enjoy the boards and allow others to enjoy them. A healthy board requires a mix of personalities, temperaments and points of view. Because we have high standards for discussion and debate, we are privileged to have several high profile scholars and apologists who post here. We ask that you respect their dignity and the investment that they have put into their research so that we can continue to enjoy their participation. We make no claim that everyone will be treated equally. Posters are only as valuable as their contributions to the board are valuable. We have zero tolerance for any comments that invade the privacy or attack the personal dignity of public figures who disclose their identity.


(refraining from commenting on the so-called “high standards for discussion and debate) This openly admits that the high profile posters are treated deferentially. But even this does not state that it is only high profile believers who are treated deferentially.

The Mormon Apologetics and Discussion Board is a discussion forum for apologetics (defense of the faith) related to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS) or Mormonism in general and related topics of interest to the LDS and Mormon communities.

Open and frank discussions will occur but participants are expected to exercise common courtesy and 'netiquette' when posting. There is a fellowship forum for discussing topics without debating them.


This, on the other hand, clearly recognizes that the main forum is a DEBATE forum, which entails the existence of critics presenting their side of the argument. The board needs critics to maintain interest.

Contrast this to postmormon:

http://www.postmormon.org/exp_e/index.p ... org/return

For former Mormons and non-Mormons visiting this website, PostMormon.org is a place where those who have left or are considering leaving the Mormon Church can meet and talk in an environment that is safe and supportive.


This clearly states that the board is designed to provide support for those who have left or are considering leaving the church. It mentions nothing about debating apologia, or allowing defense of the faith.

It does allow LDS under certain conditions:

For Mormons visiting this website, know that you are welcome as long as you respect that this is our home and you are a guest in it. As a guest you are expected to conduct yourself as any guest normally would when visiting someone’s home, even if you don’t agree with some of the things you find during your visit. We find that most Mormons visiting here do respect that this is our home. If you are one of them that doesn’t then don’t be surprised if you are quickly shown the door. Click here for more information.



Additional information for the guests.

Third--The internet is a peculiar sort of house, and society is still working out the rules of decorum when it comes to how we interact here. Whose house is PostMormon.org? Whose house is LDS.Org? It's obvious if we're speaking of homes of bricks and mortar whose house it is, and we know how to behave there. I wouldn't dream of slipping into your Sacrament Meeting, and challenging every testimony is born, even if I was trying to be understanding. Imagine me asking questions phrased like, "Seriously, you guys...how can you believe that Joseph translated the Book of Mormon with a rock in a hat?" I might be sincere in my motive, but that's not how you behave in someone else's house. I could reasonably expect that if you were in my home for dinner, that our conversation pertaining to my beliefs would be respectful and inquisitive. I presume you know how to act in my house, as I know how to act in yours. It's when we meet here that things get weird.


You, and Ray, are still defenders of the faith, whether or not your names are on the rolls, or you are active in the church. So you are clearly one of the “Mormons” whom this advice is directed towards.

So compare MAD and postmormon. MAD is clearly a debate board to allow for defense of the faith. Critics are needed to provide that debate. Only high profile posters – which could be Dan Vogel as well as Dan Peterson – are given deferential treatment, according to their guidelines.

The reality is that moderating is extremely biased, and sneering and mockery is allowed to take place as long as it is LDS doing the sneering and mocking. The “culling” takes place – not to keep the number of critics from outnumbering believers, but to keep the believing posting populace in a heavy enough majority that sheer numbers will comfort believers. If enough people cheer them on, bad arguments don’t matter.

Postmormon is clearly a support board for people who have left or are considering leaving the LDS church. Believers are tolerated only under certain conditions. You violated those conditions.

Based on your style here, I would venture to guess you violated this in particular:

Second--Sometimes in our zeal to appear understanding, we make more noise than we should. My experience with seeking understanding is that the vast majority of my time is best spent with my ears wide open and my mouth shut. There is no understanding of another's world view, if I am trying to shape that world view with my constant talking. The more I talk, the more I guide the conversation. The more I guide the conversation, the more it mirrors MY world-view rather than theirs. Understanding comes with empathy, and empathy is achieved when you can reflect back to the other person what they're saying, and demonstrate that you do, in fact, understand. I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Empathy is not the same as sympathy. Sympathy implies "agreement". And I am not suggesting you need to agree in order to understand. Empathy means only that you have worked hard enough to see the issue through the other person's eyes.


You have a tendency not to “hear” the other. Look at your insistence that exmormons don’t have a right to feel angry. You stated your opinion in the form of a question. You received many sincere responses explaining why, indeed, exmormons are entitled to anger. Yet it doesn’t look like you absorbed one thing any of us said.
We hate to seem like we don’t trust every nut with a story, but there’s evidence we can point to, and dance while shouting taunting phrases.

Penn & Teller

http://www.mormonmesoamerica.com
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