Lifting of the priesthood ban for black males

[_Coggins7]

There is a God, and he is Afro-American, like I always thought he was.

Oh please, how seventies...

[Dr. Sunstoned]

Urrrrrrp...

[_karl61]

Oh I agree - but you forgot pill poppin ;)

[_Roger Morrison]

Hi Harmony, you wrote:

No, we aren't stupid. We just expect them to live up to their claims: God's own true church, ya know. If we didn't have that claim shoved down our throats every 6 months, we'd... I'd at least be more inclined to cut them some slack. After all, they're just a bunch of old men trying to keep their world like it was in the prime of their lives. Progressive thinking isn't mandated by a church led by men; progressive thinking is only mandated if the church is truly led by God. (Bold added by RM)

, what other words would You choose to describing yourself?

Harmonious. ;-)

Cute! ROTFL! But evasive as to what makes one so desirous of LDS integrity, being so aware of its lack, and returning again & again to the same whipping post?? S & M?? "Harmonious"? With whom? :-0 Is it an addiction? LOL! How's about da "12 Step Program"? Maybe, Dr Phil? :-) Warm regards, Roger

[_harmony]

Cute! ROTFL! But evasive as to what makes one so desirous of LDS integrity, being so aware of its lack, and returning again & again to the same whipping post?? S & M?? "Harmonious"? With whom? :-0 Is it an addiction? LOL! How's about da "12 Step Program"? Maybe, Dr Phil? :-) Warm regards, Roger

I stay for a variety of reasons. Because I think it can what it's supposed to be if we'd just get some new leadership, because staying is easier than leaving, because I know what else is out there and there's nothing out there I'm interested in, because I am content to serve God my way even if my way isn't the way someone who doesn't walk around in my skin thinks I should, because it's the devil I know so well, and last but not least, because I love my ward and I can't abandon them or help with any changes, if I'm on the outside.

[_Trevor]

A holier-than-thou liberal, strutting back and forth, beating his brest in pursed lipped moral pontification and people of different eras and centuries for there racism, (and other 'isms' in the modern leftist little black bag of post modern ideological sins) is a spectacle ugly and nausiating to behold in and of itself, but the fact of the matter remains the the primary sources within the church do not mention race as a primary factor in any of this, only lineage, and it is lineage, despite all your attempts to coat all of those primary sources with a gloss of modern leftist ideological preoccupations does not change this fundamental reality.

I continue to ask, why such bile?

Since you have continued not to respond to my posts in any substantive way, and since you continue to behave abusively rather than rationally, and.... since Runtu has in a few words cut through your morass and described it for what it is, I see no need, nor do I desire, to respond to your nonsense.

[_harmony]

Loran, when are you going to answer the question about why black women were denied their endowments, prior to 1978?

[_Roger Morrison]

Hi Harmony, you wrote:

I stay for a variety of reasons. Because I think it can what it's supposed to be if we'd just get some new leadership, because staying is easier than leaving, because I know what else is out there and there's nothing out there I'm interested in, because I am content to serve God my way even if my way isn't the way someone who doesn't walk around in my skin thinks I should, because it's the devil I know so well, and last but not least, because I love my ward and I can't abandon them or help with any changes, if I'm on the outside.

I understand. And in some respects, i agree. The 'leadership' is a near insurmountable object. But, optimist that i am, i do think it will slowly evolve to a better understanding of current member/world needs and apply resources and energy in more enlightened remedial ways. As someone said a few months ago, "one funeral at a time."

Most churches are going through the same metamorphisis. Hence there is a new flame being fanned in burned-out old Christianism. I only hope it is oriented to the "Two New Commandments". At that point sectarian differences might be set aside--hoping Mormons are not hold-outs--and human life will be enjoyed as intended in humanitiy's higher state of being.

Good luck with your 'hanging-in'. Respectfully, with warm regards, Roger

[_mormonmistress]

Until I started reading here I had no idea about much of the history of the LDS church, but the blatant racism it promoted surprised me the most. Most of the Mormon's in NZ seem to be Maori and to think that they joined a religion that was racist astounds me. Mind you, it was less than 100 years since the white people had landed here when the Mormons turned up. I guess they took advantage of the 'natives' who not long before then were still running around in grass skirts. Dirty tactics.

[_Brackite]

All very interesting, except for the fact that Brigham Young made clear a century and a half ago that the "Priesthood ban" had to do with lineage, not race. The racial connotations that crept into the doctrinal explanations for the "ban", whatever their origin, were only that-doctrinal explanations. And, to be clear, I am not saying the 19th century leaders and members did not impose racial connotations on the actual basis of the ban. The ban itself, however, had to do with a lineage which was denied the right to hold the Priesthood for much of the history of human civilization. The Canaanites (Phoenicians), and Egyptians, as well as other black Africans, partook of this lineage.

Hi Coggins7,

If the Priesthood ban was really based on lineage, and not on race, then how come there are no heard of instances of males being denied the Priesthood within the Country of Mexico before the year of 1978? During the 16th, 17th, and 18th Centuries, a lot of African slaves were imported into Mexico. At least 200,000 African slaves were imported into Mexico between the years of 1521 and 1810. Please See for Example: http://www.isteve.com/2002_Where_Did_Me ... cks_Go.htm
The LDS Church has been doing Missionary work in Mexico since the late 1870s. Yet, I am not aware about any instances of any male in Mexico being denied the Priesthood in Mexico before the year of 1978 because of having African lineage. According to Genetic Mixing, we are all descendants of Cain, Ham, and Abraham, if indeed they all did indeed exist. The Following is from one of the Web Site Pages, of the LDS Apologist Jeff Lindsay:

In fact, the mathematics of genetic mixing (see discussion below) imply that there should be "Semitic DNA" among Native Americas. According to Steve Olson in the highly acclaimed book, Mapping Human History (2002a, p. 114):

The forces of genetic mixing are so powerful that everyone in the world has Jewish ancestors, though the amount of DNA from those ancestors in a given individual may be small. In fact, everyone on earth is by now a descendant of Abraham, Moses, and Aaron--if indeed they existed.

Every Native American may literally be a descendent of Abraham and even Lehi, but a vast number of other ancient ancestors who also contributed their genes may make it difficult to find the remnants of Semitic DNA. This does not destroy the plausibility of the Book of Mormon, when fairly and accurately read.

( http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDSFAQ/DNA.shtml )

WE are all descendents of Abraham. The Priesthood ban within the LDS Church before the Year of 1978 was very illogical, because of the Genetic Mixing that has been going on throughout the many centuries of human history.