Enduring to the End

[_Gazelam]

Whens the last time you prayed Keene?

Whens the last time you had the drugs out of your system enough to hear a response to prayer?

[_keene]

Whens the last time you prayed Keene?

Whens the last time you had the drugs out of your system enough to hear a response to prayer?

Define "prayer?"

I usually go several months between uses of drugs, although I have been drunk a lot lately, due to some rather interesting panic attacks (long story).

When I'm not on drugs, my spiritual endeavors revolve around finding ways to bring joy into my life, and the lives of those around me. This usually revolves around humor. So, in my own definition, prayer involves things like watching stand-up comedy, writing my own comedic stories, and generally making people laugh. Sometimes, it involves seeking a sensation outside of myself, such as empathy with another, or astral projection, or simple meditation.

But, if you define prayer as asking the big invisible intangible bearded guy in the sky (TM) for advice, I stopped that shortly after the big invisible intangible bearded guy in the sky (TM) told me to stop. Or, to put it more specifically, when I prayed on whether or not the Book of Mormon was true, and was given a reveletion of "no" so powerful that it shook every part of me for days on end, and when explored further, found that all christian mythos were giving me the same powerful "no." That was the last time I 'prayed.'

[_mormonmistress]

The God you want isn't so much a Father in Heaven as he is a Grandfather in heaven. The kind that gives you all the candy you want and lets you run around like a wild indian.

Thanks for enlightening me as to what I want, Gaz.

[_gramps]

The God you want isn't so much a Father in Heaven as he is a Grandfather in heaven. The kind that gives you all the candy you want and lets you run around like a wild indian.

Thanks for enlightening me as to what I want, Gaz.

I want to run around like a wild Indian!

Gaz, you keep making a fool of yourself. Wild Indian?

[Guest]

Oh shoot! You beat me to it gramps!


<image snipped cause I'm cleaning the litter box! I'm a bad kitty! Sorry!>
I am sooo down with being a wild indian!


oh please everyone ignore me. I'm having issues!

[_barrelomonkeys]

And might I just add that I think Christ would like me. A lot! :)


Almost as much as inconceivable. ;P

[_keene]

Since when did indians have those shoes? INSANITY I TELLS YA!

Monkeys, keep your hands off Christ. He's MINE! He even told me he loves me, which is cool, 'cause I thought it was just a fling.

[_gramps]

Oh shoot! You beat me to it gramps!



I am sooo down with being a wild indian!


oh please everyone ignore me. I'm having issues!

That is one hot wild Indian!

Gaz, don't think on that too hard or long. You might need to visit your neighbor to repent.

[_Jason Bourne]

Mormonmistress, a newer poster on the board, made this observation on another thread, and I thought it was worth bringing up as a topic of discussion:

What the heck is this 'enduring' business anyway. It makes life sound like a torture chamber. It shouldn't have to be endured! I personally take issue with that word being used in that way.

MM is a non-member, and as such, is hearing this term as an outsider.

Having grown up in the Church, and growing up hearing this phrase, to be honest, I hadn't really given it much thought.

I have lost count of how many talks I have heard regarding "enduring to the end".

I suppose that, from an outsider's point of view, it does give the connotation of life being something that has to be endured rather than enjoyed.

My interpretation of this phrase, however, had always been that when life does get difficult, and we face struggles, with God's help, we will have the strength to press through these struggles, thus, "enduring to the end".

In this context, it doesn't have the negativity that may otherwise be associated with it.

Thoughts, anyone?

Enduring to the end has a number of meanings. There is the one you give above. There is the idea of remaining a faithful and believing member of God's Church and Kingdom to the end of life. There is the meaning of remaining true the Christ to the end, not abandoning one's baptismal and temple covenants.

Honestly I don't really like the term because it does connote pain and agony perhaps in the process. I number of years ago I started using the terms to abide in Christ or abide in my covenants to him. To abide in Christ is to be in Christ as Paul says in 2 Corinthians 5:17.

[_Jason Bourne]

I don't have much criticism of the phrase. The fact is, life is a difficult proposition no matter who you are, and parts of it will need enduring (unless you decide to take the easy route and jump off a tall building).

Sure, everyone wants to enjoy life, but enjoying life consists of understanding that life can be hard to handle and accepting that fact, thereby transcending its difficulty and making your life a bit easier.

I agree with Schmo, for the most part. Where I disagree is that in the context of Mormonism, the phrase doesn't appear to apply in this way, but rather it appears to equate "enduring" with "resisting temptation" and living Mormon beliefs and standards to the end. It is not about finding purpose in life and coping in hard times but about making sure that your lips never touch beer in your lifetime or that your hands never wander on down to your groin area for the purpose of self pleasure.

It's about being obedient to the end, not about finding meaning in life in the midst of uncertainty, disappointment, chaos, tragedy, etc.

I agree but it has Schmo's connotation as well. Neil Maxwell wrote a book called "If thou Endure it Well" and it focuses on life trials such as illness, being hurt by others, trials from natural calamities and so on.