keene wrote:Everyone's been talking a great deal about the 'meaning' of the phrase, but even if it's supposed to mean something good, I still take issue with it.
You can talk about meaning until your face turns blue, but that doesn't change the instant subconsious reaction to the word. When you say you must endure to the end, the subconsious will immediately start looking for something bad, so that it can produce the state of endurance. This can all happen so automatically that nearly everyone would miss it.
I prefer other phrases that are designed with the subconsious effect of overcoming, instead of enduring. One of my favorites comes from Richard Bandler:
"Someday you'll look back on this and laugh. Why wait?" When your problems look silly to your unconsious mind, they're much easier to "endure."
Well enduring can be positive. For a hobby I do an endurance sport. And let me tell you there are times when you have to endure to the end in lots of pain and you really feel like quiting. Enduring to the end of the race there has appropriate meaning.
I appreciate what you've said. For me, the medication helps, but changing the thought processes is what is making the big difference, and not surprisingly it isn't easy to overcome years of faulty thought processes. As even Wade recognizes, cognitive behavioral therapy can do wonders for depression when used with proper medication.
So far, it's helping, and I'm doing a little better every day. I'm going to remember that: I'm not going to "do" depression anymore. An excellent thought.
I suffer from depression too. I have tried medication and it really did not help except during one period where I was having major anxiety and panic attacks. The drugs helped with that. What helped me was two things. A good therapist that helped me with how I viewed things, and taking up an athletic activity as a hobby. The latter I think has been one of the best things I have done for myself both physically and mentally. I feel better mentally, about myself, I weigh 45 pounds less then I did 2.5 years ago, my cholesterol is 135, resting heart rate 48-52. I still have some border line high blood pressure though I think because I am a bit to intense still about work and other issues.
mormonmistress wrote:Sure we endure some things in life, but life itself shouldn't be endured. I still take issue with the word. Who thought that one up anyway?
So there are many different meanings about what we are supposed to be enduring. Who makes these interpretations? Is this something your Bishops have interpreted for you, or is it something you pray on and come up with your own meaning for?
Religious texts, whether they be the Book of Mormon, the Bible etc are interpreted in so many different ways by so many different people. I think that often, these interpretations may not actually be what the writer intended. JW's are a prime example of this as they interpret the Bible as directing them not to have blood transfusions. Other people interpret the same passage about abstaining from blood as meaning that if you are to eat animals, they must be properly bled. Then there are a portion of JW's who think that it's okay to have a blood transfusion as long as it's only part of the blood and not whole blood. Considering blood transfusions were not even available at the time the Bible was written, how the heck did they come up with their meaning? How do you know when you are given an interpretation of a text, that the person who has interpreted it is actually getting a message from God on what it means? They might just take a stab in the dark and say it means this or that.
Could you ever let your child die by refusing a blood transfusion? If you had been brought up a JW instead of a Mormon and therefore thought theirs was the one true church, would blindly follow the doctrine? DO any of you faithful LDS folk ever question any of your doctrine and covenants or are you all just sheep playing follow the leader?
mormonmistress wrote:? DO any of you faithful LDS folk ever question any of your doctrine and covenants or are you all just sheep playing follow the leader?
No, we're all just sheep, following the prophet. When the prophet speaks, and even before then, the thinking has all been done so we don't have to think at all... just follow. The prophet will never lead us astray. God won't let him. God will kill the prophet before he'll let him lead us astray. And since Pres Hinckley is almost as old as dirt, and God hasn't killed him yet, that means whatever he says is what we're supposed to do.
I do not understand 'precepts of eternal happiness'. Could someone expound on that?
I still feel that my initial reaction to the word 'endure' is keeping me from pondering this point further.
I don't think I was a 'sheep' as a TBM. It didn't even occur to me that my own feelings might differ from the church line. Just for instance on the gay issue, I never even gave it a thought until I was questioning everything else too. I don't think one can blindly follow without that being a choice. I don't know, though, I wasn't very old when I left the church. I'm in my late 30's, a faithful wife, loving mother, good person. I wouldn't consider myself a person of temporal pleaures at all - although I do enjoy life very much. Every day. I'm very grateful for every day that I have here. Once again, though, not enduring it. The opposite of enduring it.
Insert ironic quote from fellow board member here.
Okay, I just looked up the word on-line. I don't think it's my perception, then. It's the actual word.
Main Entry: en·dure
Pronunciation: \in-ˈdu̇r, -ˈdyu̇r, en-\
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): en·dured; en·dur·ing
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French endurer, from Vulgar Latin *indurare, from Latin, to harden, from in- + durare to harden, endure — more at during
Date: 14th century
transitive verb
1 : to undergo (as a hardship) especially without giving in : suffer <endured great pain>
2 : to regard with acceptance or tolerance <could not endure noisy children>
intransitive verb
1 : to continue in the same state : last <the style endured for centuries>
2 : to remain firm under suffering or misfortune without yielding <though it is difficult, we must endure>
Insert ironic quote from fellow board member here.