Joseph Smith Polygamy - Women as Victims?

[Guest]

I've read Rough Stone Rolling and have followed this board as well as MAD for about the last year. During that time I always considered the wives as victims of Joseph Smith.

I wonder if it's really an accurate way to think of these women that were the subsequent wives of Joseph Smith. Surely there were a number that were coerced and did not desire to be a polygamous wife. However is it always accurate to think of these women in the sense that they were victims?

Is it a possibility (oh I'm so scared to type this!) that some were star struck and desired to be a lover/wife to Joseph Smith?

Is it just a knee jerk reaction that I have to assume all of the wives were victims? I'm just thinking about how women sometimes desire to latch onto men that they admire, respect, etc... and find validation there and do so through sexualizing themselves.



*edited cause I typed Rough Rolling Stone cause I was thinking about rock stars!! oops!*

[_Sethbag]

Is a girl a victim who gets back-stage passes and ends up getting laid by a rock star? If she's truly star-struck and throws herself at him, then she's a willing participant, but it cannot be denied that she's been used.

I think Joseph Smith used these women too. Whether they were willing participants, star-struck, fawning, adoring women who would do, literally, anything for The Prophet or not, they were certainly used by the Prophet for his own selfish reasons, and that makes them victims to an certain extent, in my opinion.

Take Helen Mar Kimball, for instance. She came to terms with polygamy and found a way to see God's Will in it, basically by starving herself and thinking about it until she found a way to come to terms with it, but I still argue that she was manipulated and used, and spiritually coerced, by her father and Joseph Smith. She is a victim of their coercion and manipulation, whether she would have seen herself as such later on or not.

[_barrelomonkeys]

I was told via PM that the only way I could get help in this thread is by asking God for intervention - and I was s*** outta luck cause there is no God!


;P

[_barrelomonkeys]

Sethbag, that's what I was sort of thinking about. Not certain what I think actually..... that's why I was asking!

[Guest]

one intersting point that I read is that those who favored plural marriage were most likely the queens of Salt Lake City in the late 1800's. When they wrote about the "celestial law" and how happy they were they were really old and would not likely say anything else. At the time most all the leaders of the Church were in jail or in hiding and it was a big issue and the U.S. Government was Darth Vader. They knew Joseph or were married to him at one time therefore they were holy ground.

When I read In Sacred Lonliness by Todd Compton, I came away thinking that these women got screwed, also know as a bad deal. The Patridge sisters etc. and the list just goes on and on. I wish he would have had the insight to tell them what was going to happen during the marriage. If you look at it, he had many of these girls/woman at the mansion house. They were maids first and then he secretly marries them and then who knows what goes on until Emma starts thinking that these two are spending way too much time together and then all hell breaks loose. If he was a seer you would think he would look into the stone to see what was coming up in the future. He was constantly flirting; only god know how many letters he sent; most were likely burned as that was his instruction - to burn them and tell no one of the communication.

[_beastie]

I think it was a mixed bag. Some of the women were victimized by Joseph Smith and other leaders - including fathers - who were spiritually coercive and abusive. Others were eager to associate with Joseph Smith and I imagine would have been happy to be a mistress, as well. Among those I consider "star struck, happy to be mistress" types are Eliza Snow and Lucinda Morgan.

The hard fact of life is that a powerful, alpha male can always find females very happy to be in his life in any way possible, even when they know the wife will be the only recognized partner. (functionally speaking, this was the situation for Joseph Smith' wives)

[_barrelomonkeys]

I think it was a mixed bag. Some of the women were victimized by Joseph Smith and other leaders - including fathers - who were spiritually coercive and abusive. Others were eager to associate with Joseph Smith and I imagine would have been happy to be a mistress, as well. Among those I consider "star struck, happy to be mistress" types are Eliza Snow and Lucinda Morgan.

The hard fact of life is that a powerful, alpha male can always find females very happy to be in his life in any way possible, even when they know the wife will be the only recognized partner. (functionally speaking, this was the situation for Joseph Smith' wives)

Beastie, well that's what I was thinking about... those happy to be a mistress or 'star struck'. Whether it is appropriate to think of them as victims. I'm uncomfortable thinking of them in that way.

[_beastie]

Beastie, well that's what I was thinking about... those happy to be a mistress or 'star struck'. Whether it is appropriate to think of them as victims. I'm uncomfortable thinking of them in that way.

I agree. There is no way I view Eliza Snow or Lucinda Morgan as victims, and there are probably others that fall into that category, but we just know less about them.

However, I note that neither of these women ended up having children. I imagine the "star struck, happy mistress" factor fades pretty fast when you have young children, and little help - financially or physically - supporting them.

But I do view others, like Helen Mar, as victims. The fact that they eventually convinced themselves this was god's will for them does not alter my opinion. Lots of victims in this world rationalize their plight - it gives them a false sense of power, for one thing.

[_barrelomonkeys]

Beastie, well that's what I was thinking about... those happy to be a mistress or 'star struck'. Whether it is appropriate to think of them as victims. I'm uncomfortable thinking of them in that way.

I agree. There is no way I view Eliza Snow or Lucinda Morgan as victims, and there are probably others that fall into that category, but we just know less about them.

However, I note that neither of these women ended up having children. I imagine the "star struck, happy mistress" factor fades pretty fast when you have young children, and little help - financially or physically - supporting them.

But I do view others, like Helen Mar, as victims. The fact that they eventually convinced themselves this was god's will for them does not alter my opinion. Lots of victims in this world rationalize their plight - it gives them a false sense of power, for one thing.

Oh no doubt about that. Finding empowerment through victimization is far too common. Unfortunately.

[_moksha]

Some women are drawn to power. Too bad he did not just let these women seek him out instead.