Great video on the origins of christianity

[_The Nehor]

All kinds of errors.

If this is allowed into the debate every one of Nibley's should be allowed in to.....along with a ton of Faith Promoting Rumors.

I would only hope you have done the research to back up this statement, and not relied upon very flawed Christian apologetics.. Yes, there are quite a few questionable points made. and possible even a few unknowns stated as facts - not unlike Nibley - but the core of the message has no argument - modern Christianity is based entirely on ancient mythology - weather you trace it back to Greek/Coptic or Egyptian the facts are the facts -

There is truth to that but the question is whether these myths came about because of the Gospel or the Gospel came about because of them. If you don't believe in God and the primordial origin of the Gospel then you have to accept the latter by default.

My faith teaches that God has inspired Prophets in all nations so I would expect truth to come from all nations. I imagine that even if Christianity were not prevalent the same stories would keep cropping up.

[_The Nehor]

That's right. Much of the mythical lore surrounding Christ comes directly from the pagans. That's the whole point. If you're trying to propagate a myth, you might as well give it features that appeal to your target audience.

Since the LDS believe the Gospel in a pure form was disseminated among all people we EXPECT correlations. Lots of them.

LOL

Wow... this is why I come here. You can't buy this kind of entertainment.

Nobody can rationalize like a religious person. Amazing!

Then again, if you're right I'd better go tell God he's a sun god. I think he has the right to know.

Hmmm... I wonder if the sun really is conscious. If so, I imagine he already knows what he is.

It's not a new concept Schmo, I read about that explanation as a teenager from non-LDS sources.

[_The Nehor]

All kinds of errors.

If this is allowed into the debate every one of Nibley's should be allowed in to.....along with a ton of Faith Promoting Rumors.

I would only hope you have done the research to back up this statement, and not relied upon very flawed Christian apologetics.. Yes, there are quite a few questionable points made. and possible even a few unknowns stated as facts - not unlike Nibley - but the core of the message has no argument - modern Christianity is based entirely on ancient mythology - weather you trace it back to Greek/Coptic or Egyptian the facts are the facts -

I actually had a few questions about certain aspects of the video too, but the evidence is overwhelming.

So you question the validity of the evidence.....but there's so much of it.....sounds like the Joseph Smith attack method.

[_Doctor Steuss]

I personally think the correlations of Christ being an avatar of Vishnu are stronger.

[_evolving]

There is truth to that but the question is whether these myths came about because of the Gospel or the Gospel came about because of them. If you don't believe in God and the primordial origin of the Gospel then you have to accept the latter by default..

It is more simple than the chicken or the egg argument - If you look at the evidence with the desire to only know what is pure unadulterated truth. It is very simple to see that Joseph Smith did not restore an ancient lost gospel. He gathered together points of thought and theology from his surrounding, from his peers, and he made a great attempt to paint for his followers a complete picture of the world from beginning to end.. He was a very complex man I do not claim to understand.. but I can follow simple reason, and deductive thought and hypothesize the origins of doctrines and practices of the LDS church.. all of the evidence points to a 19th century compilation... there are simply no points of data that help restore my belief that the LDS church is an ancient restoration of "all things"..

I think I believe in a god of some sorts.. I just don't know - when it gets dark, and I am alone with my thoughts I believe there has to be something greater out there somewhere.. and when looking at the root of Mormon theologies and discovering it is not what it claims to be.. for me the world just got bigger. and I became infinitely smaller --

My faith teaches that God has inspired Prophets in all nations so I would expect truth to come from all nations. I imagine that even if Christianity were not prevalent the same stories would keep cropping up.

Is it more likely that oral traditions, legends, and myths all had at one point in time, had a single source, and that the similarities in all of these separate belief systems can be explained by the adoption and telling of these stories as their own -- perfect example of how this happens exists in LDS mission lore today - almost every mission had a set of elders who dusted their feet on some preacher, who later had something horrible happen to them. or the laundry mat owner that hung some elders G's up and after a quick dusting the place burned down.. these myths are perpetuated by journal entries and campfire stories and in a hundred years someone may even have the desire to gather all of these stories and canonize them once and for all as scripture. there you have it the birth of a mission narrative.. It is not only the LDS faithful who suffer from parrollel-o-mania - many other faiths parse through ancient texts looking for similar beliefs to their own, and claim the hits as proof that they are on the right "god chosen"path, and simple overlook the misses.. the DSS are another great example of how this whole process is working out.. the Jews, Mormons, catholics, and EV's are all claiming the things that embolden their faith as truth, and reject the rest as apostate literature.. the big picture is the Gnostic essenes were not christian or Jews - they had their own beliefs based on their passed down mythology – that’s it the society took stories that made sense to them, and built themselves a religion.. combined all of the elements from the torah they liked, and tossed the things they did not believe in..

[_The Nehor]

There is truth to that but the question is whether these myths came about because of the Gospel or the Gospel came about because of them. If you don't believe in God and the primordial origin of the Gospel then you have to accept the latter by default..

It is more simple than the chicken or the egg argument - If you look at the evidence with the desire to only know what is pure unadulterated truth. It is very simple to see that Joseph Smith did not restore an ancient lost gospel. He gathered together points of thought and theology from his surrounding, from his peers, and he made a great attempt to paint for his followers a complete picture of the world from beginning to end.. He was a very complex man I do not claim to understand.. but I can follow simple reason, and deductive thought and hypothesize the origins of doctrines and practices of the LDS church.. all of the evidence points to a 19th century compilation... there are simply no points of data that help restore my belief that the LDS church is an ancient restoration of "all things"..

I think I believe in a god of some sorts.. I just don't know - when it gets dark, and I am alone with my thoughts I believe there has to be something greater out there somewhere.. and when looking at the root of Mormon theologies and discovering it is not what it claims to be.. for me the world just got bigger. and I became infinitely smaller --

My faith teaches that God has inspired Prophets in all nations so I would expect truth to come from all nations. I imagine that even if Christianity were not prevalent the same stories would keep cropping up.

Is it more likely that oral traditions, legends, and myths all had at one point in time, had a single source, and that the similarities in all of these separate belief systems can be explained by the adoption and telling of these stories as their own -- perfect example of how this happens exists in LDS mission lore today - almost every mission had a set of elders who dusted their feet on some preacher, who later had something horrible happen to them. or the laundry mat owner that hung some elders G's up and after a quick dusting the place burned down.. these myths are perpetuated by journal entries and campfire stories and in a hundred years someone may even have the desire to gather all of these stories and canonize them once and for all as scripture. there you have it the birth of a mission narrative.. It is not only the LDS faithful who suffer from parrollel-o-mania - many other faiths parse through ancient texts looking for similar beliefs to their own, and claim the hits as proof that they are on the right "god chosen"path, and simple overlook the misses.. the DSS are another great example of how this whole process is working out.. the Jews, Mormons, catholics, and EV's are all claiming the things that embolden their faith as truth, and reject the rest as apostate literature.. the big picture is the Gnostic essenes were not christian or Jews - they had their own beliefs based on their passed down mythology – that’s it the society took stories that made sense to them, and built themselves a religion.. combined all of the elements from the torah they liked, and tossed the things they did not believe in..

Yeah, if I were trying to find God by digging through musty texts I'd be daunted.

[_keene]

There's much more to this movie than what was posted on Youtube. Zeitgeist's astrotheology section is nearly 40 minutes long.

The full movie can be found here: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 5331&hl=en

Then for more corolaries, I would also suggest: http://www.pharmacratic-inquisition.com/

The two speakers are boring, and they don't' really present themselves well, but they present a whole hell of a lot of information. Some of it's pretty far-out there, but a lot of it seems to fit pretty well.

I think the evidence of the zodiac (and shrooms) as being the source of religious mythos is quite high. The "three kings" (belt of orion) and how they follow sirius to point at the sun on the morning of december 25th, the passing of the ages from torus to aquarius... It's quite easy to think of a bunch of guys sitting around the camp fire, creating stories based on these astrological events. And given how many of these stories are so similar, from so far behind the time of Christ -- well, it just seems most likely that the Christ figure is a new face on an old story.

How the attonement works out in the myth -- well, that's where the shrooms play into it. And lets not forget that we've had a ruling class in charge of the myth for 2000 years -- they're bound to change it in a lot of ways to appease and control the masses.

[_Mercury]

All kinds of errors.

If this is allowed into the debate every one of Nibley's should be allowed in to.....along with a ton of Faith Promoting Rumors.

How so? This is not as reaching as nibleys assertion that everywhere you look is Mormonism.

Besides, what are you woried about? Mormons are not christian to begin with.

[_Mercury]

I personally think the correlations of Christ being an avatar of Vishnu are stronger.

Vishnu, Zoroaster, Ra, Sol, the great earth mother....

[_Mercury]

All kinds of errors.

If this is allowed into the debate every one of Nibley's should be allowed in to.....along with a ton of Faith Promoting Rumors.

I would only hope you have done the research to back up this statement, and not relied upon very flawed Christian apologetics.. Yes, there are quite a few questionable points made. and possible even a few unknowns stated as facts - not unlike Nibley - but the core of the message has no argument - modern Christianity is based entirely on ancient mythology - weather you trace it back to Greek/Coptic or Egyptian the facts are the facts -

There is truth to that but the question is whether these myths came about because of the Gospel or the Gospel came about because of them. If you don't believe in God and the primordial origin of the Gospel then you have to accept the latter by default.

My faith teaches that God has inspired Prophets in all nations so I would expect truth to come from all nations. I imagine that even if Christianity were not prevalent the same stories would keep cropping up.

That is a very ignorant argument Nehor and I expected better from you. The latter statement is, well...just laughable.