asbestosman wrote:Why do I not chastize my own team? Because frankly I fell that such would not have the desired effect. When I criticize a critic's tone on MA&D, I generally am trying to offer pointers on how to survive at MA&D (or be more effective). I am not trying to find fault. I do the same for the faithful where I think it may be effective.
This is interesting in that you seem to think that you have a better chance of getting the critic to follow the teachings of the LDS Apostle (Ashton) than you do of getting the LDS to follow the teachings.
I think you misunderstand me. I'm merely saying that people in general (not just my own team although I indeed started speaking about them) won't always receive criticism in the manner in which I intend it. I attempted to clarify that I give pointers to the faithful where I think it may be effective. I have no opinion on whether one side or the other is more likely to receive it effectively.
That's General Leo. He could be my friend if he weren't my enemy. eritis sicut dii I support NCMO
I think you misunderstand me. I'm merely saying that people in general (not just my own team although I indeed started speaking about them) won't always receive criticism in the manner in which I intend it. I attempted to clarify that I give pointers to the faithful where I think it may be effective. I have no opinion on whether one side or the other is more likely to receive it effectively.
I think you misunderstand me. I'm merely saying that people in general (not just my own team although I indeed started speaking about them) won't always receive criticism in the manner in which I intend it. I attempted to clarify that I give pointers to the faithful where I think it may be effective. I have no opinion on whether one side or the other is more likely to receive it effectively.
Got it. Thanks for the clarification.
Look, you have to remember that these people don't think they're attacking. They honestly believe that they're defending the truth. If you get mad or offended, it's just proof to them that you're a bad person who attacked the church in bad faith.
If you feel upset with some of the things you're learning about church history or whatnot, MA&D is not the place to get those feelings validated. If you have questions about church history, but aren't struggling (you either believe or you don't), then MA&D can be a great place. If you are struggling, well, I'm not really sure what to recommend. You might try and see what FAIR publishes. I think much of it is available online.
That's General Leo. He could be my friend if he weren't my enemy. eritis sicut dii I support NCMO
asbestosman wrote:If you feel upset with some of the things you're learning about church history or whatnot, MA&D is not the place to get those feelings validated. If you have questions about church history, but aren't struggling (you either believe or you don't), then MA&D can be a great place. If you are struggling, well, I'm not really sure what to recommend. You might try and see what FAIR publishes. I think much of it is available online.
Most of us have gone that route. Frankly, the stuff on FAIR almost uniformly sucks. It consists mostly of wishful thinking and "mighta coulda shoulda" possibilities.
There are no good places to go for answers because there are no good answers. If you're struggling, you're pretty much on your own. Some will end up back in church, and some won't.
Well, another thread I started at MA&D was just shut down after Selek told me that I had my head up my a**. No, really, he said it straight out and then Momus came on and told ME and Selek to stop the personal attacks, when I made no such attacks whatsoever in the thread.
Let me say this. The offense is gone, the anger seems to have subsided and I am laughing a good bit now. Selek, Pahoran, Juliann and the like have been very helpful even though it seems like they have only attacked and attacked. They have been helpful in demonstrating to me that regardless of where I end up on the truthfulness issue, I know I don't want to end up like them--so bitter and, ironically, so insecure with who they are and what their purpose in life is. They have testified to me, but not of the matters they would like to think.
mms wrote:Well, another thread I started at MA&D was just shut down after Selek told me that I had my head up my a**. No, really, he said it straight out and then Momus came on and told ME and Selek to stop the personal attacks, when I made no such attacks whatsoever in the thread.
In my opinion, your aside to Selek about Selek's previous provacation was itself provocative. Selek rose to the occasion asking if his advice helped. You played the mirror hinting that Selek spoke from personal experience. And back and forth you two went.
As an aside, I half expect this criticism of mine not to be received very well--even after I deleted over half of this post because I thought maybe it was an overload of criticism otherwise.
That's General Leo. He could be my friend if he weren't my enemy. eritis sicut dii I support NCMO
There are no circumstances under which it is appropriate to attack... ever. None. We are expected, as followers of Christ, to turn the other cheek. We are not allowed to toss the moneychangers out of the temple. That task is Christ's alone. We are to show love unfeigned, kindness always... and if we are not and do not, we are to accept correction humbly.
And when we don't, we are at fault, not the one administering the slap. Humility is the mark of a Christian. Arrogance is not. DCP is out of line... again. It's 10 years later, and he still doesn't live his religion.
mms wrote:Well, another thread I started at MA&D was just shut down after Selek told me that I had my head up my a**. No, really, he said it straight out and then Momus came on and told ME and Selek to stop the personal attacks, when I made no such attacks whatsoever in the thread.
In my opinion, your aside to Selek about Selek's previous provacation was itself provocative. Selek rose to the occasion asking if his advice helped. You played the mirror hinting that Selek spoke from personal experience. And back and forth you two went.
As an aside, I half expect this criticism of mine not to be received very well--even after I deleted over half of this post because I thought maybe it was an overload of criticism otherwise.
Have you mentioned to Selek that you think he was out of line by saying, oh, for example, that I had my head up my A**? Again, I appreciate that you would like to "correct" (for lack of a better term) my behavior, but it is amazing to me that a true believer and defender of the faith tells me that I have a tube of preparation H up my a** as well as my head and you have some criticism for me. Asbestos, I actually think you might be a bit afraid of Selek and others--a coward of sorts as are all of the others who are so willing to correct me at every turn, but will never, ever, ever, ever correct one of their "team" members even though such are so obviously in violation of what you all claim to believe. I suppose I did not receive the critiism well, eh?
Scottie wrote:Except that it is taught to turn the other cheek 490 times (7x70). After this, I guess you can go crazy.
Also, just because they are members of the church, doesn't make them perfect. Although, for the life of me, if they get THAT distraught about being "attacked" day in and day out, why on earth are they still on the message boards??
Critics and Apologists have a dysfunctional co-dependent relationship.
That's why Nehor and I are getting married next month.