thestyleguy wrote:Does the current LDS church believe all the Twelve (or Fifteen) are Prophet, Seers and Revelators. Is there some reason the book of Joseph has not be translated? How many hours during this last year do you think President Hinckley or Elder Holland have had a stone in a hat and their face in the hat. I was reading an article about the Book of Mormon and the author suggests that people like Nephi, Mosiah, Alma jr, Mormon and Moroni were all seers. It was like being passed down to the next person. After reading this article I think I might read the Book of Mormon in the same way that I would read the Lord of the Rings and instead of the ring - it's a stone or some item that lets them see into the future. It seems that Joseph Smith had a special place in his heart and mind for Seers.
Just a couple of weeks passed the membership of the Church sustained all 15, (12 apostles + 3 in the First Presidency) as prophets, seers, and revelators.
A seer is someone who prophecies future events. Nothing in the definition says anything about translating ancient documents by the power of God, however that power is manifest.
So the questions about bringing forth new scripture by way of translation is incorrect.[/quo
So Joseph Smith did it wrong? Moroni must not have been a good tutor.
??? We believe in all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and that He will yet reveal many great and glorious things.
We don't believe God told everything to Paul, and then turned His back on us.
And there are the lost 116 pages we hope we get to have someday. And the sealed portion of the Book of Mormon. When we are ready for it.
charity wrote:Just a couple of weeks passed the membership of the Church sustained all 15, (12 apostles + 3 in the First Presidency) as prophets, seers, and revelators.
A seer is someone who prophecies future events. Nothing in the definition says anything about translating ancient documents by the power of God, however that power is manifest.
So the questions about bringing forth new scripture by way of translation is incorrect.
I mean really, come on - how do you hold the belief that an all powerful, all knowing god has given the power of unknown language translation to anyone, anywhere, by any means.. the rock in the hat makes this illogical belief ridiculously absurd on every level!!! yet, Mormons have bet the whole lot on that very premise --that 15 men have been given that power today, and scores of men have held that position since Joseph... but none(except Brigham)have prophesied - seen - or revealed anything new -- and the religious traditions BY initiated are now covered up, disregarded, and berated by church leaders and apologists alike..
Imagine if this power were real - Gee's Book of Abraham position that - no one really knows what the ancient Egyptians were thinking when they recorded the facsimile's .. would be unnecessary - because GBH knows right? -- what an incredible asset to society that would be. Elder Monson could travel to Alaska and reveal to the Eskimo tribes their unknown past recorded in a lost traditional language. Elder Packer could go to Nubia and translate the the unknown ancient languages there - any of the twelve could take an amazing trip to Arches and reveal what the tribes who recorded their lives had to say - ancient language scholarship would be centered in Utah - the church could make $billions$ deciphering ancient languages using this gift.. but alas they - the limo driven "rock stars" of Mormonism remain stoic, serving the same pasty white bland doctrinal oatmeal to which believing members study listen and hang on every word - not at all realizing that if you did the research you would have seen the topics covered a few weeks ago in conference have been covered 24,456 times in the past... so much for revealing someting new --
Someday, you will "evolve" and can understand prophecy when you hear it.
And they will have time to tell us something new when we can fully live what we have been given up to now.
charity wrote: And they will have time to tell us something new when we can fully live what we have been given up to now.
Standard Mormon reply #2045.
How convenient.
That particular reply was given rather frequently at BYU when people wondered why President Benson, clearly suffering from dementia, was allowed to remain alive as titular head of the church.
thestyleguy wrote:Does the current LDS church believe all the Twelve (or Fifteen) are Prophet, Seers and Revelators. Is there some reason the book of Joseph has not be translated? How many hours during this last year do you think President Hinckley or Elder Holland have had a stone in a hat and their face in the hat. I was reading an article about the Book of Mormon and the author suggests that people like Nephi, Mosiah, Alma jr, Mormon and Moroni were all seers. It was like being passed down to the next person. After reading this article I think I might read the Book of Mormon in the same way that I would read the Lord of the Rings and instead of the ring - it's a stone or some item that lets them see into the future. It seems that Joseph Smith had a special place in his heart and mind for Seers.
Just a couple of weeks passed the membership of the Church sustained all 15, (12 apostles + 3 in the First Presidency) as prophets, seers, and revelators.
A seer is someone who prophecies future events. Nothing in the definition says anything about translating ancient documents by the power of God, however that power is manifest.
So the questions about bringing forth new scripture by way of translation is incorrect.[/quo
So Joseph Smith did it wrong? Moroni must not have been a good tutor.
??? We believe in all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and that He will yet reveal many great and glorious things.
We don't believe God told everything to Paul, and then turned His back on us.
And there are the lost 116 pages we hope we get to have someday. And the sealed portion of the Book of Mormon. When we are ready for it.
LOL: there is no credibility because the LDS church also talks about obeying, honoring and sustaining the law. Joseph Smith wrote that too but the saints in Missouri, Illinois and Utah forgot about that article of faith so why not just forget about the rest.
charity wrote:Just a couple of weeks passed the membership of the Church sustained all 15, (12 apostles + 3 in the First Presidency) as prophets, seers, and revelators.
Do you really think the membership would do anything besides sustain the Leaders? I doubt the most "TBM" members of the church are going to do any brutal examinations of the Church Leaders' performance.
Last edited by Anonymous on Thu Oct 25, 2007 4:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Whatever appears to be against the Book of Mormon is going to be overturned at some time in the future. So we can be pretty open minded."-charity 3/7/07
thestyleguy wrote:Does the current LDS church believe all the Twelve (or Fifteen) are Prophet, Seers and Revelators. Is there some reason the book of Joseph has not be translated? How many hours during this last year do you think President Hinckley or Elder Holland have had a stone in a hat and their face in the hat. I was reading an article about the Book of Mormon and the author suggests that people like Nephi, Mosiah, Alma jr, Mormon and Moroni were all seers. It was like being passed down to the next person. After reading this article I think I might read the Book of Mormon in the same way that I would read the Lord of the Rings and instead of the ring - it's a stone or some item that lets them see into the future. It seems that Joseph Smith had a special place in his heart and mind for Seers.
They don't bring forth new scripture because members don't spend enough time learning and applying what we have. The Book of Moses came forth during a renaissance of scriptural learning in the Church. As soon as the members get a very good grasp of what we've got, we'll get more. An unfortunate side-effect will be the critics getting more as well but you can't win them all.
Joseph mentioned more than once that we get little revelation because we keep passing it on to our enemies.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics "I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
charity wrote:Just a couple of weeks passed the membership of the Church sustained all 15, (12 apostles + 3 in the First Presidency) as prophets, seers, and revelators.
Do you really think the membership would do anything besides sustain the Leaders? It's not exactly a critical group doing the sustaining.
LOL... exactly... like Jimmy at the back of the room is going to stand up and say, "Nope! I don't sustain them! They don't seem too prophetic to me!"
God belief is for people who don't want to live life on the universe's terms.
The Nehor wrote: They don't bring forth new scripture because members don't spend enough time learning and applying what we have. The Book of Moses came forth during a renaissance of scriptural learning in the Church. As soon as the members get a very good grasp of what we've got, we'll get more.
charity already used up standard Mormon response #2045 in this thread. Get your own.
God belief is for people who don't want to live life on the universe's terms.
Do you really think the membership would do anything besides sustain the Leaders? It's not exactly a critical group doing the sustaining.
LOL... exactly... like Jimmy at the back of the room is going to stand up and say, "Nope! I don't sustain them! They don't seem too prophetic to me!"
Jimmy starts to stand up...but then is taken down by a sniper while the Leaders revel in their 100% approval ratings. Of course the group being polled is their strongest supporters, but details shmetails they say.
(NO I don't think the LDS leaders would use snipers on the church leaders....the protestors outside maybe, but not the members inside)
Last edited by Anonymous on Thu Oct 25, 2007 4:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Whatever appears to be against the Book of Mormon is going to be overturned at some time in the future. So we can be pretty open minded."-charity 3/7/07