charity wrote:Just a couple of weeks passed the membership of the Church sustained all 15, (12 apostles + 3 in the First Presidency) as prophets, seers, and revelators.
Do you really think the membership would do anything besides sustain the Leaders? It's not exactly a critical group doing the sustaining.
LOL... exactly... like Jimmy at the back of the room is going to stand up and say, "Nope! I don't sustain them! They don't seem too prophetic to me!"
From the 1978 April Conference Report on the Sustaining of Church Officers:
During the last conference we had one dissenting vote, and there was some misunderstanding about it. Someone said that I treated him very curtly. I would just like to explain just what takes place if anyone or a number of people have a dissenting vote. We give them the opportunity to go to one of the General Authorities to explain to that General Authority why they feel the person is not qualified, and if he’s found not qualified, then we take the necessary action.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics "I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
thestyleguy wrote:Does the current LDS church believe all the Twelve (or Fifteen) are Prophet, Seers and Revelators. Is there some reason the book of Joseph has not be translated? How many hours during this last year do you think President Hinckley or Elder Holland have had a stone in a hat and their face in the hat. I was reading an article about the Book of Mormon and the author suggests that people like Nephi, Mosiah, Alma jr, Mormon and Moroni were all seers. It was like being passed down to the next person. After reading this article I think I might read the Book of Mormon in the same way that I would read the Lord of the Rings and instead of the ring - it's a stone or some item that lets them see into the future. It seems that Joseph Smith had a special place in his heart and mind for Seers.
They don't bring forth new scripture because members don't spend enough time learning and applying what we have. The Book of Moses came forth during a renaissance of scriptural learning in the Church. As soon as the members get a very good grasp of what we've got, we'll get more. An unfortunate side-effect will be the critics getting more as well but you can't win them all.
Joseph mentioned more than once that we get little revelation because we keep passing it on to our enemies.
Oh for heaven's sake Nehor, come up with something original.
200 years from now the Mormon faithful (was few of them remain--I fully expect Mormonism to have pretty well disappeared by this time) will be making the same lame excuses, while simultaneously proclaiming that some day soon they'll actually find scientific evidence support the Book of Mormon.
God . . . "who mouths morals to other people and has none himself; who frowns upon crimes, yet commits them all; who created man without invitation, . . . and finally, with altogether divine obtuseness, invites this poor, abused slave to worship him ..."
The Nehor wrote:From the 1978 April Conference Report on the Sustaining of Church Officers:
During the last conference we had one dissenting vote, and there was some misunderstanding about it. Someone said that I treated him very curtly. I would just like to explain just what takes place if anyone or a number of people have a dissenting vote. We give them the opportunity to go to one of the General Authorities to explain to that General Authority why they feel the person is not qualified, and if he’s found not qualified, then we take the necessary action.
Nice. So in the last 30 years, there's been one dissenting vote? Doesn't sound as much like a vote as it does a ritual, if you ask me.
I imagine that "the necessary action" = "excommunication."
God belief is for people who don't want to live life on the universe's terms.
The Nehor wrote:They don't bring forth new scripture because members don't spend enough time learning and applying what we have.
So, does this mean that people had pretty well mastered the Bible's principles before the Book of Mormon came along? Or does this only apply now that Joseph Smith's works have come forth?
I don't think this particular rationale works very well.
“I was hooked from the start,” Snoop Dogg said. “We talked about the purpose of life, played Mousetrap, and ate brownies. The kids thought it was off the hook, for real.”
thestyleguy wrote:Does the current LDS church believe all the Twelve (or Fifteen) are Prophet, Seers and Revelators. Is there some reason the book of Joseph has not be translated? How many hours during this last year do you think President Hinckley or Elder Holland have had a stone in a hat and their face in the hat. I was reading an article about the Book of Mormon and the author suggests that people like Nephi, Mosiah, Alma jr, Mormon and Moroni were all seers. It was like being passed down to the next person. After reading this article I think I might read the Book of Mormon in the same way that I would read the Lord of the Rings and instead of the ring - it's a stone or some item that lets them see into the future. It seems that Joseph Smith had a special place in his heart and mind for Seers.
They don't bring forth new scripture because members don't spend enough time learning and applying what we have. The Book of Moses came forth during a renaissance of scriptural learning in the Church. As soon as the members get a very good grasp of what we've got, we'll get more. An unfortunate side-effect will be the critics getting more as well but you can't win them all.
Joseph mentioned more than once that we get little revelation because we keep passing it on to our enemies.
Oh for heaven's sake Nehor, come up with something original.
200 years from now the Mormon faithful (was few of them remain--I fully expect Mormonism to have pretty well disappeared by this time) will be making the same lame excuses, while simultaneously proclaiming that some day soon they'll actually find scientific evidence support the Book of Mormon.
Why come up with something new when the first problem remains unresolved. We're exhorted to feast on the word of Christ. I doubt the same excuse will hold in 200 years. By that point I expect God will just come and burn most of the Church at his coming if he has to.
It's nice to know you think you're a Prophet though.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics "I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
thestyleguy wrote:Does the current LDS church believe all the Twelve (or Fifteen) are Prophet, Seers and Revelators. Is there some reason the book of Joseph has not be translated? How many hours during this last year do you think President Hinckley or Elder Holland have had a stone in a hat and their face in the hat. I was reading an article about the Book of Mormon and the author suggests that people like Nephi, Mosiah, Alma jr, Mormon and Moroni were all seers. It was like being passed down to the next person. After reading this article I think I might read the Book of Mormon in the same way that I would read the Lord of the Rings and instead of the ring - it's a stone or some item that lets them see into the future. It seems that Joseph Smith had a special place in his heart and mind for Seers.
They don't bring forth new scripture because members don't spend enough time learning and applying what we have. The Book of Moses came forth during a renaissance of scriptural learning in the Church. As soon as the members get a very good grasp of what we've got, we'll get more. An unfortunate side-effect will be the critics getting more as well but you can't win them all.
Joseph mentioned more than once that we get little revelation because we keep passing it on to our enemies.
Oh for heaven's sake Nehor, come up with something original.
200 years from now the Mormon faithful (was few of them remain--I fully expect Mormonism to have pretty well disappeared by this time) will be making the same lame excuses, while simultaneously proclaiming that some day soon they'll actually find scientific evidence support the Book of Mormon.
Why come up with something new when the first problem remains unresolved. We're exhorted to feast on the word of Christ. I doubt the same excuse will hold in 200 years. By that point I expect God will just come and burn most of the Church at his coming if he has to.
It's nice to know you think you're a Prophet though.
I don't think I'm a prophet. I don't claim to speak for God or to see the future. I'm making a wild guess, though at least I have the honestly to admit that's what I'm doing rather than cloaking my guesses as some kind of prophetic utterance.
Oh swell, Christ will burn the Church when he comes. It's nice to know that you too believe that fiery death and suffering are just fruits of disobedience. Nice to know that the Mormon rank and file have this in common with the Jihadists, although the the former prefer others to do the dirty work for them.
I do, however, think I, along with millions of other people, have far more insight into the human condition than the wizened old geezer who claims to be the prophet.
Last edited by Guest on Thu Oct 25, 2007 5:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.
God . . . "who mouths morals to other people and has none himself; who frowns upon crimes, yet commits them all; who created man without invitation, . . . and finally, with altogether divine obtuseness, invites this poor, abused slave to worship him ..."
The Nehor wrote:From the 1978 April Conference Report on the Sustaining of Church Officers:
During the last conference we had one dissenting vote, and there was some misunderstanding about it. Someone said that I treated him very curtly. I would just like to explain just what takes place if anyone or a number of people have a dissenting vote. We give them the opportunity to go to one of the General Authorities to explain to that General Authority why they feel the person is not qualified, and if he’s found not qualified, then we take the necessary action.
Nice. So in the last 30 years, there's been one dissenting vote? Doesn't sound as much like a vote as it does a ritual, if you ask me.
I imagine that "the necessary action" = "excommunication."
No, there are more. I've seen many at the ward and stake level too. The problem is people in those meetings insist to me that they've never seen one. I think there's a kind of catatonia that hits most LDS during the sustaining process as demonstrated:
"I am tempted to refer to the presentation at one of our southern conferences. Some of the brethren and sisters take this feature of the conference and think it is not very important. Brother J. Golden Kimball, my dear friend, was attending a conference in one of the stakes in southern Utah, so the story is told. He was presenting the names of the General Authorities and presented the Presidency of the Church. They voted upon them separately-then the Council of the Twelve, the First Council of the Seventy-there were fewer hands coming up each time, and then he slipped this in: "It has been proposed that we move Mount Nebo in the southern part of the valley to the northern. All in favor, manifest it." And they voted it. "Any opposed by the same sign." And nobody voted against it. So he presented the names of the Presiding Bishopric and then asked the president of the stake to continue with the presentation of the stake authorities." -Elder Thomas E. Mckay
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics "I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
guy sajer wrote:I don't think I'm a prophet. I don't claim to speak for God or to see the future. I'm making a wild guess, though at least I have the honestly to admit that's what I'm doing rather than cloaking my guesses as some kind of prophetic utterance.
I do, however, think I, along with millions of other people, have far more insight into the human condition than the wizened old geezer who claims to be the prophet.
Whether you are willing to admit you are a prophet or not, guy, we, the members of your growing cult, worship you as a god all the same.
With humility and reverent awe,
Trevor
“I was hooked from the start,” Snoop Dogg said. “We talked about the purpose of life, played Mousetrap, and ate brownies. The kids thought it was off the hook, for real.”
Trevor wrote:Whether you are willing to admit you are a prophet or not, guy, we, the members of your growing cult, worship you as a god all the same.
With humility and reverent awe,
Trevor
I even shook his hand, and there was just something about his countenance ....
I'm told that when I pass gas, it smells somehow sweeter than normal flatulence.
God . . . "who mouths morals to other people and has none himself; who frowns upon crimes, yet commits them all; who created man without invitation, . . . and finally, with altogether divine obtuseness, invites this poor, abused slave to worship him ..."