Origins of the Book of Mormon

The catch-all forum for general topics and debates. Minimal moderation. Rated PG to PG-13.
Post Reply
_charity
_Emeritus
Posts: 2327
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 3:30 pm

Post by _charity »

evolving wrote:I am astonished Charity throws the Loose translation theory's around so blatantly.. Last time I checked, Prof. Royal Skousen is furthering his research on, and teaching classes on the "tight translation theory". does he not have the full support of the BYU presidency..?? ---

once again someone in the LDS apologetic world making assumptions and defending beliefs on behalf of the church, without their knowledge or support... tell me again Charity why do you do that ??


I don't represent the Church, the BYU presidency, whoever they are, FAIR, MA&D, anyone. Just me. I read. I comprehend. I discuss things that I am interested in. I told you it was just fun.
_Blixa
_Emeritus
Posts: 8381
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2007 12:45 pm

Post by _Blixa »

moksha wrote:
Blixa wrote:Two words: polished shaft.


Blixa's being naughty.

Runtu: Isn't it interesting that the angel with a flaming sword didn't come down to stop the attack at Crooked River or stop the destruction of the Expositor or even to protect Joseph from the mob at Carthage. Nope, the Lord saved his really big guns for the important stuff.


I have always thought the angel and the flaming sword were symbolic.


Correction. The sword wasn't flaming. Maybe the angel was, but I think that assumption would involve presentism.
From the Ernest L. Wilkinson Diaries: "ELW dreams he's spattered w/ grease. Hundreds steal his greasy pants."
_Runtu
_Emeritus
Posts: 16721
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2006 5:06 am

Post by _Runtu »

Blixa wrote:Correction. The sword wasn't flaming. Maybe the angel was, but I think that assumption would involve presentism.


You're right, it wasn't flaming. Here are some other references:

"His brother, Hyrum, said to me, "Now, Brother Benjamin, you know that Brother Joseph would not sanction this if it was not from the Lord. The Lord revealed this to Brother Joseph long ago, and he put it off until the Angel of the Lord came to him with a drawn sword and told him that he would be slain if he did not go forth and fulfill the law." He told my sister to have no fears, and he there and then sealed my sister, Almira, to the Prophet."

"Soon after this he was at my house again, where he occupied my Sister Almira's room and bed, and also asked me for my youngest sister, Esther M. I told him she was promised in marriage to my wife's brother. He said, "Well, let them marry, for it will all come right.""
- Elder Benjamin F. Johnson, My Life's Review See: http://mormonlore.freeservers.com/johnson1.htm

"He there and then explained to me the doctrine of plurality of wives; he said that the Lord had revealed it unto him, and commanded him to have women sealed to him as wives; that he foresaw the trouble that would follow, and sought to turn away from the commandment; that an angel from heaven then appeared before him with a drawn sword, threatening him with destruction unless he went forward and obey the commandment."

"He further said that my sister, Eliza R. Snow, had been sealed to him as his wife for time and eternity. He told me that the Lord would open the way, and I should have women sealed to me as wives. This conversation was prolonged, I think, one hour or more, in which he told me many important things."

"I solemnly declare before God and holy angels, and as I hope to come forth in the morning of the resurrection, that the above statement is true."
- Prophet Lorenzo R. Snow, sworn affidavit. See: http://www.Mormons.org.uk/celest.htm

"19 year-old Zina remained conflicted until a day in October, apparently, when Joseph sent [her older brother] Dimick to her with a message: an angel with a drawn sword had stood over Smith and told him that if he did not establish polygamy, he would lose "his position and his life." Zina, faced with the responsibility for his position as prophet, and even perhaps his life, finally acquiesced." (In Sacred Loneliness, page 80-81)

"An Angel of God Stood by him (Joseph Smith) with a drawn Sword and told him he should be slain & Cut off from the Earth and the kingdom of God if he did not obey that Law (of polygamy). George Q Cannon was of the same opinion, that a man must have more then one wife at a time in order to obey that Law."
- Prophet Wilford Woodruff, Wilford Woordruff's Journal, Vol. 8, p.235
Runtu's Rincón

If you just talk, I find that your mouth comes out with stuff. -- Karl Pilkington
_Trevor
_Emeritus
Posts: 7213
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2007 6:28 pm

Post by _Trevor »

Blixa wrote:Correction. The sword wasn't flaming. Maybe the angel was, but I think that assumption would involve presentism.


I think you need to wait until all of the evidence is in... you know, take a 'wait and see' attitude.

Image
“I was hooked from the start,” Snoop Dogg said. “We talked about the purpose of life, played Mousetrap, and ate brownies. The kids thought it was off the hook, for real.”
_beastie
_Emeritus
Posts: 14216
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 2:26 am

Post by _beastie »

Typical anti Mormon stunts!!! Claiming a flaming sword just to make the story sound ridiculous.
We hate to seem like we don’t trust every nut with a story, but there’s evidence we can point to, and dance while shouting taunting phrases.

Penn & Teller

http://www.mormonmesoamerica.com
_MishMagnet
_Emeritus
Posts: 288
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 2:04 pm

Post by _MishMagnet »

I know!

We represent:

The National Sarcasm Society
- Like we need your support. -

And really I think it's very important to a very many people where the Book of Mormon took place. I don't find it amusing. And no, I meant why isn't the Koran considered by you to be the word of God when it is both historically proven and an illiterate prophet received it through an angel. These seem to be the same points on which I should accept the Book of Mormon.
Insert ironic quote from fellow board member here.
_Jersey Girl
_Emeritus
Posts: 34407
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 1:16 am

Post by _Jersey Girl »

Hi charity,

This thread took off since I last read it! In another post you stated that the "other" Spalding manuscript wasn't even mentioned until after the first one was found. (Apparently the one you have a copy of).

Why do you think it wasn't mentioned until after the first one was found and how is that a problem? Or is it a problem and for whom?

Jersey Girl

(I appreciate all that you've taken on in this thread!)
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
_charity
_Emeritus
Posts: 2327
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 3:30 pm

Post by _charity »

Jersey Girl wrote:Hi charity,

This thread took off since I last read it! In another post you stated that the "other" Spalding manuscript wasn't even mentioned until after the first one was found. (Apparently the one you have a copy of).

Why do you think it wasn't mentioned until after the first one was found and how is that a problem? Or is it a problem and for whom?

Jersey Girl

(I appreciate all that you've taken on in this thread!)


Hurlburt was a rabid anti-Mormon. I don't know about the others. But it was clearly on the agenda of the anti-Mormons to try to discredit the Book of Mormon with the claim that the Spaulding manuscript was the basis for the Book of Mormon. And very convenient for them that the manuscript was lost and no one could compare the two.

So after years of saying, "Golly gee, we could show you if we just had the manuscript" the manuscript was found. And what do you know, it wasn't anywhere close, besides a few superficial similarities. So, they had to concoct a new "missing" manuscript. Now, they are back to "golly, gee, we could show you if we just had the manuscript" again. "

It keeps their myth alive. The only problem is for the anti's. It really stretches things to have made the claim twice. The first one didn't work and so they tried it again. Pretty laughable, actually.

And thanks for asking.
_karl61
_Emeritus
Posts: 2983
Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2007 6:29 pm

Post by _karl61 »

remember charity that the Book of Mormon calls all the other churchs a whore.
I want to fly!
_karl61
_Emeritus
Posts: 2983
Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2007 6:29 pm

Post by _karl61 »

"that great whore, that great and abominable church"
I want to fly!
Post Reply