Missionaries at German University campuses

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_Blixa
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Post by _Blixa »

My first response is that I remember more German than I thought! Of course that is kindergarten sprache, but still...and I think my accent quite good still, too (though hard and "northern")!

(I studied German and Latin a billion years ago as an undergrad. I was never much of a competent conversationalist, but I could limp through some Nietzsche once upon a time. I also still play around with Rilke to keep my hand in, so to speak).

That is a very, very sad little flyer. I can't imagine who it would appeal to and European universitat students are at the top of list of who it would most certainly NOT.

Man, that is just...I can't believe they didn't use even a 2nd or 3rd grade kind of question like "Why are there wars?" Maybe because unlike grass and flowers they don't want to attribute that one to God?

I'd love to hear more about any other thoughts your students have on this.

Mine also ask the same set of questions when they learn where I'm from. Polygamy is first then a host of jumbled up with JW's stuff follows (only 100 people are saved?), along with coffee and alcohol being taboo and aren't they just plain weird, like how those missionary guys dress is so weird, etc.

My answers I think are fairly benign: I explain things quickly and describe it as a (one time) historically innovative religion that over time has become increasinly mainstreamed and more and more conservative. And I do tell them they should be kind to the missionaries---they don't have it easy.
From the Ernest L. Wilkinson Diaries: "ELW dreams he's spattered w/ grease. Hundreds steal his greasy pants."
_gramps
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Post by _gramps »

KimberlyAnn wrote:Gramps, tracting in Germany must put missionaries into contact with folks too smart to fall for their line of B.S., so they've had to try a new scheme. I have to wonder if the missionaries are essentially pre-qualifying potential converts. I mean, really, the only people who would bother responding to a marketing scheme so dumb are the only folks gullible enough to join up with the Mormons!

Thanks for the laugh!

KA


Who are the marketing "experts?" That is what I want to know. My Gosh! They could pay me half what they pay whomever is putting together this stuff and I would do it for them. I wonder if that offer would fly?

It is mind-boggling, isn't it?
I detest my loose style and my libertine sentiments. I thank God, who has removed from my eyes the veil...
Adrian Beverland
_gramps
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Post by _gramps »

Blixa wrote:My first response is that I remember more German than I thought! Of course that is kindergarten sprache, but still...and I think my accent quite good still, too (though hard and "northern")!

(I studied German and Latin a billion years ago as an undergrad. I was never much of a competent conversationalist, but I could limp through some Nietzsche once upon a time. I also still play around with Rilke to keep my hand in, so to speak).

That is a very, very sad little flyer. I can't imagine who it would appeal to and European universitat students are at the top of list of who it would most certainly NOT.

Man, that is just...I can't believe they didn't use even a 2nd or 3rd grade kind of question like "Why are there wars?" Maybe because unlike grass and flowers they don't want to attribute that one to God?

I'd love to hear more about any other thoughts your students have on this.

Mine also ask the same set of questions when they learn where I'm from. Polygamy is first then a host of jumbled up with JW's stuff follows (only 100 people are saved?), along with coffee and alcohol being taboo and aren't they just plain weird, like how those missionary guys dress is so weird, etc.

My answers I think are fairly benign: I explain things quickly and describe it as a (one time) historically innovative religion that over time has become increasinly mainstreamed and more and more conservative. And I do tell them they should be kind to the missionaries---they don't have it easy.


My German still sucks, but I could get this no problem. LOL

I, too, took German in undergraduate and never realized it should be more than a grammar lesson and never really learned to speak it. I'm getting a little better now. Can't say much for my pronunciation, though. When I order my favorite beer at the local pub, I still can't get them to understand me. And I still don't know what I am doing wrong! LOL

I go a little more into it with them. I tell them to watch Southpark and report and then I will tell them the "official" story. We watched both the Southpark on Mormonism and the Southpark on Scientology (come out of the closet, Tom. I'm not here.") They get a good laugh out of that stuff. They are pretty much inoculated when they are done with me. I tell them they are free, of course, to join, but not to come running to me later when they realized what they have done.

They can not ever wrap their heads around the First Vision and gold plates story. That leaves them dumbfounded. They can't imagine such beliefs prospering anywhere except America. In other words, they are not at all surprised that Mormonism is a 19th-century religion from America.

And, yes they do get confused at times with the JWs. But, we clear that up right away. Sometimes, they think the Mormons are the Amish. That is a funny one.

What I do find interesting with the Christians in Germany, my girlfriend included, is that they think and have been taught that there is no problem having both evolution and Christianity on the same ice cream cone. I always disagree with them on that one, but if Christ is just a good guy, then I guess it is possible. Not one of them has any clue about the Atonement. My girlfriend and I have just agreed to not get into that discussion anymore.

Needless to say, they often have a very watered down idea of Christ and salvation. At least the "Lutherans." The Bavarian Catholics are a different story altogether.
I detest my loose style and my libertine sentiments. I thank God, who has removed from my eyes the veil...
Adrian Beverland
_harmony
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Post by _harmony »

Blixa wrote: And I do tell them they should be kind to the missionaries---they don't have it easy.


Trudat. Respect given, even if not earned, is the sign of the self-actualized.
_Runtu
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Post by _Runtu »

One of my son's friends just arrived in Germany about a month ago to begin his mission (he's in the Hamburg mission). When you mentioned the new missionary who didn't speak well, I thought of him. This kid is a happy and outgoing, friendly sort of kid. I wonder what his mission is going to do to him.

As for the OP, I agree. I can't imagine a worse sales pitch for university students.
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If you just talk, I find that your mouth comes out with stuff. -- Karl Pilkington
_gramps
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Post by _gramps »

Runtu wrote:One of my son's friends just arrived in Germany about a month ago to begin his mission (he's in the Hamburg mission). When you mentioned the new missionary who didn't speak well, I thought of him. This kid is a happy and outgoing, friendly sort of kid. I wonder what his mission is going to do to him.

As for the OP, I agree. I can't imagine a worse sales pitch for university students.


Well, it will be tough in Hamburg, except that at least Hamburg is a bit more international because it is a harbor town. He will probably be teaching "foreigners." Non-Germans. But, the church will take anyone it can get obviously. Hope he took a warm rain coat.

But, it is a nice city. I could probably live there. But, the people are far from friendly and outgoing. It will be tough on him. I wish him luck.
I detest my loose style and my libertine sentiments. I thank God, who has removed from my eyes the veil...
Adrian Beverland
_Blixa
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Post by _Blixa »

gramps wrote:The Bavarian Catholics are a different story altogether.

Bavaria is another story altogether from what I hear...

I do go more in depth with students who are interested outside of class. I just don't have enough class time as it is to get anything in their heads, let alone lead them through the arcana of "doctrine" and history. And of course, I don't want any discussion to be solely about religious belief: my approach is secular history not the Big Question of whether there is a God or not. My students are often incapable of making that distinction and I scrupulously avoid using the classroom to tell them, even indirectly, that they are wrong to believe as they do. If anything vaguely religious ever comes up I present it in as neutral a fashion as possible (i.e. assuming that these are cultural myths like any cultural myths) and let them draw their own conclusions as regards their personal belief.

Because I am dealing with American students, i.e. people who have had absolutely NO exposure to the study of philosophy (or geography, or much science, or ANY art, etc.) it is very hard to broach these topics in a rationalist and intellectual manner. I do consider it my duty to give them access to different ways of seeing the world than the ones they came in the door with---that is what teaching is about, afterall---and I will answer honestly about my lack of belief if asked, I don't volunteer that information (directly, its probably obvious in other ways) because its very easy to get mired in an emotional argument about various religions being Right or Wrong.

It must be wonderufl to teach sentient beings, gramps....
From the Ernest L. Wilkinson Diaries: "ELW dreams he's spattered w/ grease. Hundreds steal his greasy pants."
_Runtu
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Post by _Runtu »

gramps wrote:Well, it will be tough in Hamburg, except that at least Hamburg is a bit more international because it is a harbor town. He will probably be teaching "foreigners." Non-Germans. But, the church will take anyone it can get obviously. Hope he took a warm rain coat.

But, it is a nice city. I could probably live there. But, the people are far from friendly and outgoing. It will be tough on him. I wish him luck.


I spoke to my son on the phone the day before yesterday. He told me that he saw the missionaries on campus (he's in college in Texas) talking to a young woman. He said he was tempted to go over there and tell her to run away fast, but he didn't. He said he doesn't want to alert anyone from the church to his presence there, as he's sure they'll start pestering him once they know he's there.

I wonder if they gave that young woman an English version of that pamphlet?
Runtu's Rincón

If you just talk, I find that your mouth comes out with stuff. -- Karl Pilkington
_gramps
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Post by _gramps »

Blixa wrote:
gramps wrote:The Bavarian Catholics are a different story altogether.

Bavaria is another story altogether from what I hear...

I do go more in depth with students who are interested outside of class. I just don't have enough class time as it is to get anything in their heads, let alone lead them through the arcana of "doctrine" and history. And of course, I don't want any discussion to be solely about religious belief: my approach is secular history not the Big Question of whether there is a God or not. My students are often incapable of making that distinction and I scrupulously avoid using the classroom to tell them, even indirectly, that they are wrong to believe as they do. If anything vaguely religious ever comes up I present it in as neutral a fashion as possible (I.e. assuming that these are cultural myths like any cultural myths) and let them draw their own conclusions as regards their personal belief.

Because I am dealing with American students, I.e. people who have had absolutely NO exposure to the study of philosophy (or geography, or much science, or ANY art, etc.) it is very hard to broach these topics in a rationalist and intellectual manner. I do consider it my duty to give them access to different ways of seeing the world than the ones they came in the door with---that is what teaching is about, afterall---and I will answer honestly about my lack of belief if asked, I don't volunteer that information (directly, its probably obvious in other ways) because its very easy to get mired in an emotional argument about various religions being Right or Wrong.

It must be wonderufl to teach sentient beings, gramps....


Well, what is funny is that the Bavarians whom I teach in Munich are far more ahead of the game and much more sentient than a lot of the former east Germans. Their education in Bavaria is very good. There is still here a big socialist mentality and it didn't help them in some ways (read: sentience). Perhaps one might say that it did help them in other ways. The only Christians around are the EV types. Haven't met a catholic, yet, I believe. Nearly all have no belief in a god at all.

So, I don't push it on them. They've nearly all seen the Southpark shows before I ever bring up where I am from.

And Scientology is not classified as a religion here. It is a business. It was even in a contract I had with one employer here when I first arrived. They weren't hiring Scientologists. I found that interesting.

I never bring this stuff up, but I am happy to answer any questions and give my feelings on the matter. They are interested!

Edited to add: I go out with my students every week. It is a kind of standing appointment, a stammtisch, as they would call it. We choose a different pub each week and different students come each week and we have a good time. It comes up a lot over beers. The only rule is that we speak English. It really helps them to get over their shyness.
I detest my loose style and my libertine sentiments. I thank God, who has removed from my eyes the veil...
Adrian Beverland
_Blixa
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Post by _Blixa »

gramps wrote:
Blixa wrote:
gramps wrote:The Bavarian Catholics are a different story altogether.

Bavaria is another story altogether from what I hear...

I do go more in depth with students who are interested outside of class. I just don't have enough class time as it is to get anything in their heads, let alone lead them through the arcana of "doctrine" and history. And of course, I don't want any discussion to be solely about religious belief: my approach is secular history not the Big Question of whether there is a God or not. My students are often incapable of making that distinction and I scrupulously avoid using the classroom to tell them, even indirectly, that they are wrong to believe as they do. If anything vaguely religious ever comes up I present it in as neutral a fashion as possible (I.e. assuming that these are cultural myths like any cultural myths) and let them draw their own conclusions as regards their personal belief.

Because I am dealing with American students, I.e. people who have had absolutely NO exposure to the study of philosophy (or geography, or much science, or ANY art, etc.) it is very hard to broach these topics in a rationalist and intellectual manner. I do consider it my duty to give them access to different ways of seeing the world than the ones they came in the door with---that is what teaching is about, afterall---and I will answer honestly about my lack of belief if asked, I don't volunteer that information (directly, its probably obvious in other ways) because its very easy to get mired in an emotional argument about various religions being Right or Wrong.

It must be wonderufl to teach sentient beings, gramps....


Well, what is funny is that the Bavarians whom I teach in Munich are far more ahead of the game and much more sentient than a lot of the former east Germans. Their education in Bavaria is very good. There is still here a big socialist mentality and it didn't help them in some ways (read: sentience). Perhaps one might say that it did help them in other ways. The only Christians around are the EV types. Haven't met a catholic, yet, I believe. Nearly all have no belief in a god at all.

So, I don't push it on them. They've nearly all seen the Southpark shows before I ever bring up where I am from.

And Scientology is not classified as a religion here. It is a business. It was even in a contract I had with one employer here when I first arrived. They weren't hiring Scientologists. I found that interesting.

I never bring this stuff up, but I am happy to answer any questions and give my feelings on the matter. They are interested!

Edited to add: I go out with my students every week. It is a kind of standing appointment, a stammtisch, as they would call it. We choose a different pub each week and different students come each week and we have a good time. It comes up a lot over beers. The only rule is that we speak English. It really helps them to get over their shyness.


Your weekly "conversation" is good. In fact I have been known to attend a similar stammtisch for Japanese students that an young professor I met at a Fall concert runs informally. "Eat/Drink Club" is a lot of fun. The dynamics with american students are, of course, quite different. However, if I ever did end up teaching again in Utah, I think the potential for such extracurricular activity would be greater. Maybe that seems counter-intuitive, but I could see the need for such a thing as well as it working out more interestingly in Utah.
From the Ernest L. Wilkinson Diaries: "ELW dreams he's spattered w/ grease. Hundreds steal his greasy pants."
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