CaliforniaKid wrote:I heard somewhere that Jordan Vadja had since left the church. Anybody know if that's true?
Dunno. But, according to the BYU's authors page:
Jordan Vajda (Dominican School of Philosophy and Theology in Berkeley, California) is a Catholic priest and a member of the Order of Preachers (the Dominicans). He serves at the Newman Center (the Catholic Campus Ministry) for the University of Washington in Seattle.
????
"Some people never go crazy. What truly horrible lives they must lead." ~Charles Bukowski
Doctor Steuss wrote:Jordan Vajda (Dominican School of Philosophy and Theology in Berkeley, California) is a Catholic priest and a member of the Order of Preachers (the Dominicans). He serves at the Newman Center (the Catholic Campus Ministry) for the University of Washington in Seattle.
Well, he is more useful as a Catholic who believes the Mormon view than as a convert.
“I was hooked from the start,” Snoop Dogg said. “We talked about the purpose of life, played Mousetrap, and ate brownies. The kids thought it was off the hook, for real.”
Runtu wrote:On a.r.m. I was John Williams (oddly enough).
John Williams the composer? I looked up some of your archived posts at ARM. You were really nice, and gave the typial apologetic responses. Amazing that John williams the ARM apologist turned to the dark side.
"We of this Church do not rely on any man-made statement concerning the nature of Deity. Our knowledge comes directly from the personal experience of Joseph Smith." - Gordon B. Hinckley
"It's wrong to criticize leaders of the Mormon Church even if the criticism is true." - Dallin H. Oaks
mentalgymnast wrote: He was the guy over at Google Groups alt.Mormon, right? If so, he had some pretty whacky things going on in his head...in my opinion.
Runtu, what did you go by over at FAIR when you were an apologist?
Regards, MG
On a.r.m. I was John Williams (oddly enough). On FAIR, I was Johnny-cat (long story behind that name). And I sucked as an apologist. :)
When I went over to the dark side, I was Not Quite Me.
Don't forget your stint as dimbulb (who currently plays gin rummy weekly with Mister Scratch in MADB Purgatory)
"Whatever appears to be against the Book of Mormon is going to be overturned at some time in the future. So we can be pretty open minded."-charity 3/7/07
Bond...James Bond wrote:Don't forget your stint as dimbulb (who currently plays gin rummy weekly with Mister Scratch in MADB Purgatory)
D'oh! I completely forgot about dimbulb. I asked them to ban me at that point because I was getting too emotionally drawn into the debate (a pattern I've sadly repeated). When I went back as Not Quite Me, they said I was a sockpuppet for someone they had banned, as if I had been booted for bad behavior.
I had forgotten that whole episode. Must be the drugs.
I read RfM before I got baptized and that's how I found out about most of the "weird" stuff; I did some additional research and it turned out most of the "anti-mormon" allegations were true. Of course, I joined in spite of the history, not because of it. I stopped believing the Church is divinely inspired because of the hypocrisy displayed by its current leadership and their irrational and harmful teachings. Of course, that would not be a problem at all if they were not firmly convinced all this BS was coming directly from God, but they are. That was my breaking point.
"reason and religion are friends and allies" - Mitt Romney
I'm a little bit surprised by the responses. I admit that when I posted this question, I thought that I was going to get what, maybe 3 responses saying that noone had ever joined knowing the controversies. I was wrong. But I still maintain that it's the exception, not the rule. I truly don't think very many people join the church knowing "the meat" rather than the milk.
It kind of goes along with another thought I had. I read this over on another board last year so apologies to whomever I am stealing this from. But in history, we know of many instances where the "unexplained" was rationalized off as act's of God or God's Will, or sometimes the flip side was Satan himself. As knowledge increased over the ages and a basic understanding of nature and the world around increased, these "unexplained" events became evident and supernatural explinations were dismissed.
Never has the opposite been true. The door doesn't swing both ways. We've never had events or instances where science has a good handle it and then turned around and explained the issue using diety or demons as the cause or source.
IE: There were periods in our history when a child would have an illness or maybe a mental illness. Demons or God's Will was the only explination for the time. In cases the child was taken away or abused to the point where the child died. Now we have a greater understanding of diseases and mental illnesses and have made great strides in treating and caring for these children.
Will we ever go backwards and claim that the child is possessed?
"If False, it is one of the most cunning, wicked, bold, deep-laid impositions ever palmed upon the world, calculated to deceive and ruin millions… " - Orson Pratt on The Book of Mormon
moksha wrote:There are many levels of belief and many types of believers to consider in answering this question. Many who are now antagonistic toward the Church, were originally of the totally committed level and were a naïve type of believer. Had they chosen to enter the Church later on after more clearly understanding the issues involved, their level of belief would not have been so absolute and their faith type would have been less naïve and more interpretive.
How do you create that groovy diaeresis in naïve?
Gasp! It's automatic. Praise Jebus!
*laffing out loud literally*
Perhaps this is the work of of our good Doctor of Grammar?
IE: There were periods in our history when a child would have an illness or maybe a mental illness. Demons or God's Will was the only explanation for the time. In cases the child was taken away or abused to the point where the child died. Now we have a greater understanding of diseases and mental illnesses and have made great strides in treating and caring for these children.
Will we ever go backwards and claim that the child is possessed?
Not while the pharmaceutical industry has such good lobbyists.
moksha wrote: Not while the pharmaceutical industry has such good lobbyists.
What a thoughtful and insightful answer. I see clearly now. Thankyou.
"If False, it is one of the most cunning, wicked, bold, deep-laid impositions ever palmed upon the world, calculated to deceive and ruin millions… " - Orson Pratt on The Book of Mormon
SatanWasSetUp wrote:John Williams the composer? I looked up some of your archived posts at ARM. You were really nice, and gave the typial apologetic responses. Amazing that John williams the ARM apologist turned to the dark side.
Are you kidding? The Darth Vader theme was always the best part of the Star Wars score! Only someone truly in tune with the Dark Side could have written that!
“I was hooked from the start,” Snoop Dogg said. “We talked about the purpose of life, played Mousetrap, and ate brownies. The kids thought it was off the hook, for real.”