God and a fraud?

[_barrelomonkeys]

Mental gymnast, What behaviors are hedonistic?

Waiting for your input first.

Well apparently you missed it! Already did my first input.

Mental gymnast, What do you believe are agnostic/atheist tendencies?

Inclinations towards questioning the existence of God.

Well that is the obvious. Is it merely that or do you subscribe characteristics and ethical shortcomings to said persons?

Mental gymnast, for what purpose did you bring up that people have assumptions of God?

We are hardwired for belief. Or at least to experience what would be perceived to be religious/spiritual phenomena. Assumptions then become a secondary spinoff/result of having been prewired for thinking about "what God is"...or isn't.

Oh! I am so hardwired to be spiritual. I have spiritual experiences and enjoy them. Yet, I can't quite get to a belief in God. Yet, again, what does that have to do with anything? I'm not certain I understand your point MG? So we all are prewired to have these experiences (neurotheology tells us that some of us more than others - I'm the lucky wacko ones! weee) and have questions about a God. What does that have to do with anything? That's a given. Is there some point you were trying to make with that?

See:
http://www.amazon.com/God-Part-Brain-Ma ... 0966036700

read the reviews.

see: http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon/20 ... rain.shtml

To disbelieve in religion/god we have to overide or disconnect the circuitry within the brain.

Regards,
MG

I'm pretty familiar with the God part of my brain. I'll follow the links although I've already read extensively on this and recognized the God part of my brain is extremely tuned in for spiritual experiences. I don't over ride anything. I experience them and appreciate them - but knowing that my neurons create a wonderful feeling of spiritual esctasy does not equate to belief in a higher power.

[_barrelomonkeys]

Also, if there is a God and God will hear me out I will be more than happy to tell God exactly how I came to doubt and eventually not believe. I find it to be a very logical conclusion. Sadly I have yet to find a God this loving or understanding.

God, I after crying unto you for years and years I eventually started considering alternatives. Had you answered me even a little bit I wouldn't be in this place right now.

MishMagnet, sounds like your loss of belief was fairly current. I'm sorry. :(

It is something that still is painful for me to have a lack of belief... there is comfort in belief. Yet little comfort found, for me, when said belief does not help alleviate pain and suffering in our lives.

[_mentalgymnast]

Thus, the great Restoration is also a refutation of our increasingly doubting and secular society. Our society has its jaded cynicism, humdrum hedonism, and pleasure seeking, and it is swamped in situational ethics. No wonder some, unaware, fulfill Peter’s great prophecy by saying, in effect: “Where is the promise of [Christ’s] coming? … All things must continue as they are, and have continued as they are from the beginning of the creation” (Joseph Smith Translation, 2 Pet. 3:4).

People have lost much of the capacity to believe. No wonder today’s permissiveness and immorality resemble symptoms of an earlier time: “And thus [Korihor] did preach unto them, leading away the hearts of many, causing them to lift up their heads in their wickedness, yea, leading away many women, and also men, to commit whoredoms—telling them that when a man was dead, that was the end thereof” (Alma 30:18).

Without the acceptance of the Restoration, it will become increasingly as it was in ancient Israel when “every man did that which was right in his own eyes” (Judg. 17:6; Judg. 21:25). Already in our time, as prophesied, “every man walketh in his own way, and after … the likeness of the world” (D&C 1:16).

Unless I'm having severe reading comprehension issues I do not see anything in the above quote that describes a behavior. Saying something is hedonistic and not equating it to something does not create meaning for me. What meaning does it have for you other than that those nasty ole atheists are all probably hedonists?

Ok, I'll save you some time. A lifestyle that would lead to adultery, fornication, or homosexual relations would be considered hedonism within the church culture. A church court would be necessary in any of these suspected cases.

Does this help?

Thanks for reinforcing the fact that you were not accusing Elder Maxwell of being a babbling fool. I made an association between your referring to his words as "babbling" and thinking that you may have thought he was somehow responsible for those words. And thus a fool.

Fools babble, right?

Regards,
MG

[_MishMagnet]

Barrelofmonkeys, No, it's not very current at all.

I left the church 15 years ago and then tried to go back and decided it was not true 9 years ago.

That does not mean that it doesn't still hurt, though. Otherwise I have graduated from college, married a wonderful man, had children, been a stay home mom, and am really quite happy.

It's been a bad day. As I said this day started out with a Born Again Christian suggesting I had no morals. So here I am, ending my day the same way. Better luck tomorrow!

[_barrelomonkeys]

Ok, I'll save you some time. A lifestyle that would lead to adultery, fornication, or homosexual relations would be considered hedonism within the church culture. A church court would be necessary in any of these suspected cases.

Does this help?

Thanks for reinforcing the fact that you were not accusing Elder Maxwell of being a babbling fool. I made an association between your referring to his words as "babbling" and thinking that you may have thought he was somehow responsible for those words. And thus a fool.

Fools babble, right?

Regards,
MG

Well I babble and I very well could be a fool! I'm often foolish. ;)

The words were babble because they did not address my question. I asked you what BEHAVIORS equated to hedonism in your view. The words you posted did NOT indicate behaviors for the most part.

So essentially anything dealing with the sexual aspect of human nature that is outside a husband and wife having intercourse in the prescribed method is hedonism? Well we have very different views on what that term means!

That was my question all along. I assumed it had to do with sexual relations. Thanks for answering. :)

[_barrelomonkeys]

Barrelofmonkeys, No, it's not very current at all.

I left the church 15 years ago and then tried to go back and decided it was not true 9 years ago.

That does not mean that it doesn't still hurt, though. Otherwise I have graduated from college, married a wonderful man, had children, been a stay home mom, and am really quite happy.

It's been a bad day. As I said this day started out with a Born Again Christian suggesting I had no morals. So here I am, ending my day the same way. Better luck tomorrow!

Ah well. I'll say it since you won't. :)

That born again Christian is a pompous ass for judging you and presuming to know you or your lifestyle. They are my favs! Oh my goodness I just love those folks. I see them everyday and wave and smile at them while they think I'm awful. All the while they whisper and smear others for not being at Church on Sundays. I'd go to Church more often if I could handle the gossip. Alas I can't handle it. So I'll be a good lil hedonist and stay at home. :)

[_mentalgymnast]

And just how do you propose that Mormonism is THAT much bigger ... than all the other myriad frauds perpetrated by human beings in the NAME OF Jesus??

The claims that are made.

If Mormonism is true, one of the biggest frauds perpetrated by human beings in the name of Jesus Christ is the Catholic church. And they are a tad bigger than Mormonism, by any measure.

Good comparison. If you're talking Christianity, it does all come down to either the Catholics or the Mormons.

Why didn't God step in and do something about the Catholic perpetuation of false beliefs concerning God/Christ and exercising a false priesthood?

Well, he DID from the POV of the LDS Church. It took a good long while though.

One would think that there must have been some dang good reasons for this, some of them only known to God. It is/was a long time for an apostate church to be functioning as though it were the true church of Christ. And it still makes that claim. Of course the LDS church would say that God has made it known that the fullness of God's truth/church is not on the earth and thus the Catholic Church is apostate. But hey, you've got to first get people to listen...then to believe. No small feat.

This is a very weak argument on your part, mg. I suggest you rethink it.

I'm OK with it. At least until I'm convinced otherwise.

Regards,
MG

[_Gazelam]

The famous old saying is that Churchs are not Museums for saints, but are in fact hospitals for sinners.

People you see at church ned you as much as oyu need them. Do women in Relief Society gossip? Sure they do, but not all of them. If you want these women to not gossip, then be sure not to contribute, set the example for them.

We attend church to 1) renew our covenants through the sacrament. and 2) to discuss the gospel and gain a better understanding of the nature and teachings of God. This includes gainign understandign through service in your various callings.

It is a bad thing to stay away from the church because you are so thin skinned as to take offence from the members there who have not yet matured in the Spirit enough to keep their mouths shut. All of us need to partake the sacrament, and we need to hear the testimonies of the faithful and have our spiritual reserves refilled after losses from the beatings we take during the week.

[_barrelomonkeys]

The famous old saying is that Churchs are not Museums for saints, but are in fact hospitals for sinners.

People you see at church ned you as much as oyu need them. Do women in Relief Society gossip? Sure they do, but not all of them. If you want these women to not gossip, then be sure not to contribute, set the example for them.

We attend church to 1) renew our covenants through the sacrament. and 2) to discuss the gospel and gain a better understanding of the nature and teachings of God. This includes gainign understandign through service in your various callings.

It is a bad thing to stay away from the church because you are so thin skinned as to take offence from the members there who have not yet matured in the Spirit enough to keep their mouths shut. All of us need to partake the sacrament, and we need to hear the testimonies of the faithful and have our spiritual reserves refilled after losses from the beatings we take during the week.

Hey Gaz, I am no doubt a sinner. Probably in need of urgent hospice care!

I don't take offense from these women - I just have incredible difficulty conversing with them. Then I'm labeled snobby often.. and I believe I am anything but. All of my neighbors think I am very, very snobby... So who knows?

Anyway, I go where I go because my children show an interest. I'm here in this community (even though I'm a TOTAL outcast here) for my children. :)

[_Gazelam]

Monkey you have the same problem my wife does, she always thinks other women are judging her. Judgeing her dress, judging her hair, judging the things she says. Am I right in assuming this?

don't worry about it, strike up conversations with these women in your neighborhood and church on topics you care about. Chances are they are going to be interested as well, and if not, oh well.

Gaz

p.s.: bytheway, my wife doesent take my advice in this either.