beastie wrote: beastie wrote:
[is it]... too much to suggest he intervene to prevent real suffering and death? And you ask me HOW should he stop it? He's an omnipotent being, that's how.
Give him some ideas. Maybe he's listening in.
You're the one suggesting that the god you believe in would not allow a fraud like Mormonism to be perpetrated in his name. I point out that the god you and ever other theist believes in allows a whole lot of horrific stuff to occur without intervening. You ask how he's supposed to intervene, I reply he's omnipotent and can do whatever the heck he wants. You tell me to make suggestions.
Forget Mormonism for a moment. What would you suggest to God that he/she/it do in order to fix disease, poverty, war, cruelty and abuse, corrupt politicians <g>, and the whole spectrum of bad things that happen on this planet? You're smart, but not omnipotent. Meet God halfway. What would you suggest?
I hear you saying that there is
some way that God COULD fix the messy things in the world since he is omnipotent. And since he can't or apparently doesn't want to, you connect this "problem" with God's interference or non-interference with religious practice and belief. Apples and oranges. One deals with the natural state of the world in which we live. Guns, Germs, and Steel sorts of developments and changes. The other has to do with choosing/not choosing God, and to what extent God is worshipped or followed. Differences between the makeup of the apple and the orange could go on.
God works within the natural world. The natural world takes its course. It is difficult to see/observe what God's objectives are behind the scenes. His ways truly are inscrutable.
C'mon beastie, help God out. What could an omnipotent being do to fix things?
beastie wrote:This is getting bizarre. You think God would stop Mormonism if it were a fraud somehow.
I do.
beastie wrote:God allows horrific tragedies and abuses to occur every day, without fail, to large numbers of people, but he won't intervene over that.
Help him fix it beastie.
beastie wrote:But let someone USE THE NAME OF HIS SON fraudulently, man, he's all over that.
As I've mentioned before, I believe the CofJCofLDS is a special case. We may have to agree to disagree on that.
beastie wrote:I know you think it is reasonable to believe that Mormonism is not a fraud. The scientologists, by the way, also think it's reasonable to believe that scientology is not a fraud, yet you called it NUTS.
Yes. But there is some good that comes out of it. Belief systems are along a spectrum of goodness and light.
beastie wrote:In the early days of the church, leaders were not shy and politically correct, and were willing to identify the catholic church as the great and abominable whore. Even if you do not go that far, you must admit that it is a fraud, because it claims to be able to perform saving ordinances in the name of Jesus...
Beastie, I said earlier (I'm assuming you read my post): "It is/was a long time for an apostate church to be functioning as though it were the true church of Christ. And it still makes that claim. Of course the LDS church would say that
God has made it known that the fullness of God's truth/church is not on the earth and thus the Catholic Church is apostate. But hey, you've got to first get people to listen...then to believe. No small feat."
Could God have come out and said it any earlier?
beastie wrote:...you know, that guy that God wouldn't allow a major fraud to be perpetrated in his name - and, according to Mormonism, it does not. Hence, fraud. The catholic church overwhelms your Mormonism in terms of magnitude, and yet God is fine allowing this particular fraud to continue.
No. He has spoken out against it. Those that have eyes to see and ears to hear and have the opportunity to do so are being shown that the Catholic Church is an apostate Christianity.
So God has stepped in and exposed a fraud for what it is as a result of restoring Christ's church in its fullness.
beastie wrote:Seriously, mg, this is a very weak argument. I think you should retract it. The fact that you can offer a justification for God allowing the other frauds to continue that would also apply to Mormonism and do not recognize it while you're typing it leads me to believe this argument of yours is not well thought out.
I believe it is. You have not convinced me otherwise. Keep trying!
Regards,
MG
beastie wrote:by the way, I really want to know why scientology is "nuts", in your opinion.
This may help:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology_controversy
Scientology controversies might be better discussed on another thread. I'm not personally interested in investing the time to discuss it though.
MG