Optimist or pessimist, religious tendency

[_cacheman]

Your optimism, and mine, is in humankind to resolve the differences that tend to keep humans at odds with each other. Actually, Jesus taught us how best to do that. As I see it pedagogically, that was Jesus' lesson objective. That to this point it hasn't materialized, in no way discredits the teacher, or the principles he presented. However, it does say considerable about the students ;-)

Well said. I actually discussed these ideas again yesterday with my father who is visiting. He is so stuck on the idea that the world is deteriorating, and that this decay is inevitable. I wish that he could see what I see as far as the social and spiritual progression of society at large. I truly believe that we as humans have the ability to continue this positive evolution towards more unity, understanding, and compassions. I don't believe that we need to accept that the greater part of the world will inevitably succumb to the 'dark side', and in fact, I believe that thinking that way can hamper effects to bring about more unity. However, hopefulness and belief in the ability of humans to solve their problems and progress, can compel individuals to positive action:)

Again, Roger, this is a great topic which deserves far more discussion than most of the topics you find on religious themed message boards. Thanks.

This is a subject that I too am extemely interested in. In fact it cruxes, "Copulating Luck In Our (Sort-of) Christian World" writen in 2003. Which is why the article refered to in my OP grabed my attention.

For Charity, and whoever else, I recommend this book written by Roger. I read it a couple of years ago, and found it to be very thought provoking.


cacheman

[_truth dancer]

Hi Roger... :-)

I'm right with you!

And Cacheman too!

I hold to the idea that if we think the world is ending and someone is going to come and save us, we are setting ourselves up for a very difficult road ahead.

Now, it may true ... I don't know, but the belief seems dangerous in my opinion.

So long as we think we can't solve the difficulties of our world, we won't ignite the creativity it will take to heal.

If we succumb to the idea that evil is going to take over the world, it will be so.

OTOH, if we decide we can and will move toward goodness and care... if we hold the vision of a healthy world, we may just find the solutions for our current challenges.

I struggle with the sorrows, pain, and suffering of the world today. I certainly feel overcome at times with the degree to which we are harming each other and our planet. And, at the same time, if we look at the bigger picture, life has overcome some pretty unimaginable challenges before so I hold to the hope that we will find a way to peace and goodness.

Very nice topic Roger!

And I second Cacheman's suggestion to read your book! It is fabulous! :-)

~dancer~

[_Zoidberg]

These stats:

"Dietary Restrictions Keep Mormons Healthy

LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA -- A professor at UCLA credits LDS prohibitions on tobacco, tea, coffee and drugs for keeping Church members healthier than others in an article that reviews the health benefits of the teachings of several religions. James E. Enstrom, research professor in the school of public health at the University of California, Los Angeles, studies the low rates of cancer and long lives of members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Enstrom, who is not a member of the LDS Church, conducted a study of the health of 10,000 LDS Church members over 14 years of age found that they lived an average of eight to 11 years longer than other white Americans."

This says nothing about optimism, though, which was really the point of my question.

I haven't seen any studies or stats on optimism correlated with LDS beliefs. So I won't make any statements on something I don't have data to back up. Unlike other posters here at times.

Huh? And what was that:

Since active LDS trend to be healthier physically and mentally must mean they are more optimistic.

?

I think it's pretty obvious that abstinence from smoking, caffeine consumption and drug use is beneficial (although mild to moderate alcohol consumption is correlated with lower death rates). But what you usually hear is the stories of depression and Prozac, especially among women, not any particular optimism.

LDS.org says: "Research indicates that among active members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the suicide rate is substantially lower than in the rest of the state's population."

No reference, though, of course.

There is apparently a study on that published in the American Journal of Epidemiology (by people from BYU, in case it's not obvious already). But a minor detail caught my attention: the only participants were males.

I wonder why that is.

[_charity]

Selighman suggests conditioning/nurture to be more causal of that tendency than chemical? If so, than I tend to agree. Good nurture can compensate for chemical inbalances to greater, or lessor, degrees depending on the measures of each; I would say.

Most of what Seligman did was prior to a lot of the work on chemical influences on mood. He had noticed a tendency in depressed people to express helplessness. He worked with dogs in an experiment which showed that if the animal felt powerless to change a circumstance, the animal demonstrated behaviors in common with humans. Of course, you coulldn't ask the dog how he felt. But the behaviors were similar.

Seligman then went on to show that increasing a subject's sense of control lightened the person's mood. INcreasing control is a common therapeutical technique today. Along with anti-depressants. If the person has good treatment. I think too much of medical practice these days just gives out the pills.

This is a subject that I too am extemely interested in. In fact it cruxes, "Copulating Luck In Our (Sort-of) Christian World" writen in 2003. Which is why the article refered to in my OP grabed my attention.

You can see how the title of my book ties together the two most significant influences, generally speaking, in an individual's life. And how that effects societies as well, for better or worse.

I read your book. Several years ago, mee. I see more of a plan, a very long term plan, in play, however.

As for the, "...LDS...optimistic view..." I agree, it seems so on the surface. And, indeed it might have been truer in days-gone-by. However, I don't find it expressed in positive terms today. What I hear is, the world is rippening in iniquity; the last-days are upon us; the Lord is at the door, stand in holy places; ready youself...

I suppose there is a dichotomy. I think it is possible to be pessimistic in the world view, and still optimistic in the individual or personal view.

This, to me, is most defeatist and contributes to stress, anxiety and worry that is more debilitating than not.

How so?

With my LDS background, I am well aware of the LDS sentiment re the Sons of Perdition, et al. And all having glory in one degree or other. In my current personal position of evolution I find such a posit completely untenable. It seems to me, escapist, in denial of evidence to the contary, and based on primitive Egyption theology...

I think we could have some interesting dialogue :-) Warm regards, Roger