wenglund wrote:Yes that is a pretty simple context. Some might even consider it overlysimplistic. But, I suppose we each are free to expand or limit the context as we see fit, and perhaps use one or two instances to claim a trend with which to assassinate someone's character. It is not a tactic I find usesful (particularly given the Golden Rule), but I can accept that others may think differently.
Thanks, -Wade Englund-
Assassinate his character? In what way, Wade? I simply noted an obvious trend. Or are you suggesting that Joseph wasn't in the habit of taking very young women into his home and making them his brides?
Here is a list of the young women who moved into Joseph Smith's home and then later became his brides:
Fanny Alger
Emily Partridge
Eliza Partridge
Lucy Walker
Sarah Lawrence
Maria Lawrence
Desdemona Fuller
Melissa Lott
Is it character assassination to acknowledge this pattern?
Runtu wrote: Here is a list of the young women who moved into Joseph Smith's home and then later became his brides:
Fanny Alger Emily Partridge Eliza Partridge Lucy Walker Sarah Lawrence Maria Lawrence Desdemona Fuller Melissa Lott
Is it character assassination to acknowledge this pattern?
Hey, the D&C says Joseph could have up to 10 virgins. That's only 8.
"We of this Church do not rely on any man-made statement concerning the nature of Deity. Our knowledge comes directly from the personal experience of Joseph Smith." - Gordon B. Hinckley
"It's wrong to criticize leaders of the Mormon Church even if the criticism is true." - Dallin H. Oaks
What kills me is that some people don't see the coercion, or the general creepiness of the whole thing.
It baffles my mind.
The very thought of a fourteen year old, eighth grade middle school girl being manipulated by a nearly forty year old married man just seriously makes me want to vomit.
~dancer~
It is absolutely disgusting! Wade mentions a 'relationship'? What type of relationship could there possibly be with a fourteen year old CHILD and a late 30's man?
I'm stunned that others don't see how very, very troubling this is. It speaks to his character. He chose to take young brides. Surely he could have found plenty of widows ;) in need of a husband?
It's poppycock that Joseph Smith had a 'relationship' with a child!
By any chance have you seen the Dateline Special where a reporter sets up sexual predators?
They do an undercover sting operation where these men arrange to meet with girls, then when the men arrive at the girls house, the reporter, and the police are waiting with the camera going.
It is sickening.
These older guys think they are meeting girls, some as young as twelve... then when the reporter shows up, they have all sorts of excuses why it wasn't what everything thinks. But then, the reporter pulls out the online chat material which basically proves the intent of the meeting, and well, these guys go on and on denying, minimizing, coming up with all sorts of excuses for the meeting.
Like you, I find it disgusting. No excuses justify harming girls.
~dancer~
Edit for clarity.
Note: there were no girls harmed on the program... I'm talking about the girls who are harmed by sexual predators.
Last edited by Bing [Bot] on Tue Oct 30, 2007 1:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
"The search for reality is the most dangerous of all undertakings for it destroys the world in which you live." Nisargadatta Maharaj
By any chance have you seen the Dateline Special where a reporter sets up sexual predators?
They do an undercover sting operation where these men arrange to meet with girls, then when the men arrive at the girls house, the reporter, and the police are waiting with the camera going.
It is sickening.
These older guys think they are meeting girls, some as young as twelve... then when the reporter shows up, they have all sorts of excuses why it wasn't what everything thinks. But then, the reporter pulls out the online chat material which basically proves the intent of the meeting, and well, these guys go on and on denying, minimizing, coming up with all sorts of excuses for the meeting.
Like you, I find it disgusting. No excuses justify harming these girls.
~dancer~
Yes I've seen those specials.
These men emotionally wound these girls to satisfy their lust.
I haven't read all the posts on this thread, but have to add my two cents, anyway.
I believe Joseph Smith constructed a paradigm which allowed him to believe that if he felt attraction - sexual, emotional - for a woman, that it was due to the fact that God had "given" him that woman in the pre-existence, and it was his right and privilege to take her in this life.
We hate to seem like we don’t trust every nut with a story, but there’s evidence we can point to, and dance while shouting taunting phrases.
Runtu wrote: What kills me is that some people don't see the coercion, or the general creepiness of the whole thing.
Could their "not seeing" be because they may not be as quick as you to jump to certain conclusions about the nature of the relationship?
Thanks, -Wade Englund-
Yes, Wade, I admit that 15 years of pondering this question made me jump to irrational conclusions. ;)
Well...one can ponder scant information for decades and still have need to jump the gaps of historical data in order to come to certain conclusions, whether irrationally or rationally. ;-)
wenglund wrote:Yes that is a pretty simple context. Some might even consider it overlysimplistic. But, I suppose we each are free to expand or limit the context as we see fit, and perhaps use one or two instances to claim a trend with which to assassinate someone's character. It is not a tactic I find usesful (particularly given the Golden Rule), but I can accept that others may think differently.
Thanks, -Wade Englund-
Assassinate his character? In what way, Wade? I simply noted an obvious trend. Or are you suggesting that Joseph wasn't in the habit of taking very young women into his home and making them his brides?
Here is a list of the young women who moved into Joseph Smith's home and then later became his brides:
Fanny Alger Emily Partridge Eliza Partridge Lucy Walker Sarah Lawrence Maria Lawrence Desdemona Fuller Melissa Lott
Is it character assassination to acknowledge this pattern?
No. It is not character assassination to acknowledge that Joseph was sealed to certain women after they moved into his home (I will have to take your word that the women listed did so)? But, then, I don't see it as "coersion" or "general creepiness" either. So, evidently, that is not what I was referring to in terms of character assassination.
Mercury wrote:He did it all for the NOOKIE....THE NOOKIE.....SO YOU CAN TAKE THAT COOKIE AND STICK IT UP YOUR ***....STICK IT UP YOUR ***!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jeez....that song (and the band Limp Brisket...I mean Biscuit...I mean Bizkit) sucks mightily.
"Whatever appears to be against the Book of Mormon is going to be overturned at some time in the future. So we can be pretty open minded."-charity 3/7/07