Ray A.....total nut.

[_Mister Scratch]

No, Ray. It is not a simple matter of you changing your perspectives; rather, it is a matter of how positively *wild* your change of heart has been. Really, the only commonality amongst your two "sides" is the pure rabidity and hostility.

Rabidity and hostility can be expressed in FAR more than cuss words or obvious anger. There is no less rabidity and hostility in your slanderous obsession with Mormons, especially DCP, than there is in mine.

Then prove it, Ray. CFR.

I would prefer a dog that growls and barks but doesn't bite, than one who comes up to you wagging it's tail, then snaps at your heels. I'm sure you've seen these mongrels. You dress up as a Mormon, claim to be a Mormon on the outside, but inside you thrive on white-anting Mormonism.

Where have I claimed any of this stuff, Ray? Are you sure you're not trying to put words in my mouth?

You, Scratch, are the epitome of hypocrisy. If you finally crossed over and said you don't believe Mormonism at all (and NOTHING you have written leads me to believe you do), and even adopted a Benson approach, I could have a smidgen of respect for you. As it stands, I respect Benson, Bachman, Sam, Nort, and even Infymus far more than you. I even respect Porter more than I do you.

I'm not so sure about that, Ray. You seem to just hate pretty much everyone. Come now, though: I know how you like your bread buttered, mate. I think you're just wonderful. Your post are so eloquent. If I were to visit you at your hovel, let me tell you my friend---we'd be on exactly the same level.. There, you feel better? Ready to flip yet again?

Because I know exactly where they stand. Your double-speak about DCP in the past was a deadset give away. You said he was a great apologist, and "I really mean that", then in the next breath you described him as you have described me above. Would you like me to dig up the quotes again? If ANYONE on this board is double-minded - it's YOU, Scratch. I think you have a problem. It's like you want to kiss and kick asses at the same time, but you're having trouble determining which ass belongs to who. One day you say DCP is a "great apologist", then the next you say he's a deranged Mopologist. It seems like your heart is divided, and what you write does seem to depend on your audience.

You tried to prove all this stuff once, Ray, and failed pretty miserably. If you want to engage in oversimplification of complex issues, why then, fire away! I do find it quite hypocritical of you, though, when you beg all of us to allow you to "change your mind," and yet when I admit that I view, say, DCP in complex ways, you accuse me of being the "epitome of hypocrisy."

You are positing a false analogy, Ray. Exmos are almost uniformly "hurt" by their experiences with Mormonism; Mormons are not.

I ask you the same thing I asked Jeff Ricks - evidence please. See this post on my blog:

http://answeringtheanti-mormons.blogspo ... g-lds.html

Sure, Ray. Just as soon as you supply evidence for the impending "holocaust" against Mormons. Quid pro quo, mate. (And anyways, the "Stories" section at RfM is ample evidence in favor of my claim.)

You are like some sick jurist, who, after seeing a battered woman divorced from her wealthy and powerful spouse, thinks that the woman deserves to be as equally criticized as the man. The fact is that exmos do not, nor will they ever, harbor anywhere near the power and wealth of the LDS Church.

Your stereotypes and analogies are lame. I have concluded that you have a very simplistic mind which only works with two colours - black, and white.

Is that the best you've got? Gee, it seems my earlier praise of you has been misplaced.... Go ahead, Ray: tell us how exmos have more monetary and political power than the LDS Church. CFR!

And yet there doesn't seem to be a moral or ethical compass undergirding your criticism. Hence, you seem like a complete whack-job.

The "moral and ethical compass" which guides you is that the Church is always wrong, unless it caves in to what you say. Only your Ark-steadying can rectify it. This is the "moral and ethical compass" which you try to judge me by - that if I don't agree with your Mormon-bashing, I have no "moral and ethical compass", and I'm a "whack job". That's a very fine standard of objectivity.

No, you are a "whack-job" on account of your apparently disturbed nature and your violent tendencies. Don't they have Anger Management in your neck of the woods, mate?

[_Ray A]

With friends like crocket and Ray to defend the Mormon church, who needs enemies? Keep up the good work!!

Actually, if Ray were consistent with his criticisms, he would lash into crocket for siding with a man who once told the mods on Z that "your missionaries are dead".

That's because crocket, at least, has more brains than you.

[_Ray A]

Of course, I have. I prefer a good wheat beer myself, but when my throat is dry, I'll try most anything. :=)

How is it these days down under?

I am really enjoying my job. I only bashed up two customers last night :) But I did call another two "the whore of all the earth" for not giving a tip. Hey, I gotta tell you this, gramps, a young girl said I was "gorgeous", not once, but five times! Hey, I don't need steroids anymore! Flattery will do the job, and I have a bruised ego in need of nourishment from any quarter it can find.

But seriously, I love my new flat, being single, and free after 28 years of caring for children! I feel like I deserve the Victoria Cross! But the exmo vote went against me, so I was awarded a wooden spoon, which I immediately chewed up and spit out in disgust, consistent with my dark and foreboding character.

'Ows yours going (drink, I mean)?

[_Coggins7]

My opinion is that Ray won't deal with his personal internal demons, so he has to construct an external demon to fight.

Whether this is correct or not in Ray's case, you should be thanked for exposing for us all very much of what people like myself and Wade have been getting at all along regarding an overwhelming number of movement exmormons and and anti-Mormons.

The venom, juvenile mocking and sarcasm; the viciousness, anti-intellectualism and pseudo intellectual posing of self anointed experts on LDS theology and history, and the clear effects of deep psychological and emotional problems reframed and externalized as creations and impositions upon them by an external entity (the Church), and of negative life experiences for which they have not yet developed the psychological and emotional resources to negotiate successfully, all loom large as that which lies at the core of very much movement anti-Mormonism, and not the "presenting problems" of this or that doctrine or unanswered historical anomaly.

Internal demons and monkeys on proverbial backs indeed. We all have them. If only more exmormons had the intellectual honesty to deal with them as they stand at just let the Church be the Church, but then, that's precisely why the Church exists; to spread and teach the Gospel within which is contained the answers and principles to cast out the demons, cork the genies, and cage the monkeys. regardless of species.

[_Coggins7]

F*** you Ray and the horse you rode in on. You have no idea what courage it took to stand up and say I DON'T BELIEVE THIS HORSE S*** ANYMORE. What courage it took to chart a new course in my life. To reach out to others who had been mis-led and lied to by a cult started by a man who couldn't keep his dick in his pants.

So F*** you Ray, go back to the cult and shut the f*** up.

Hmmmm...now I know you writes all the dialog for most of Tarantino's flicks...

[_beastie]

That's because crocket, at least, has more brains than you.

No doubt. You've already informed me I was a bitch, as well. And you know, even if every accusation you've made against me were true, I've still never said anything as vicious as "YOUR MISSIONARIES ARE DEAD."

I hope crocket and coggins think long and hard about whose bed they are hopping into. I have very little respect for either of these characters, but they are certainly not in Ray's league.

[_Coggins7]

Surprisingly, you're one of the exmos I thought "less angry", though your exchanges with Dan Peterson made you look like a real angry dude. You might have had one up on Susan from the "recovery" board, but Dan made you look like an absolute ass. At least you're not constantly, always on here moaning, bitching and griping like Chinese anti-Mormon water-torture.

"Shut the f*** up"? You would love me to, wouldn't you? I believe in freedom of speech too much to shut anyone the f*** up, no matter how much I disagree with them. And that includes you, with your "world's largest repository of anti-Mormon" materials. You should be proud. Now "thinking Mormons" can see both the dining room, and the toilet, and decide whether they want to eat a three course meal, or go for a s***.

Infymus is a total and utter nonentity. His criticisms of the Church are similar in kind and tone to criticisms of George Bush or the IDF at MoveOn.org. Infymus both looks and reads like an angry, alienated and out of work thrash metal musician low on Cannabis and not particularly given to serious critical thought.

while its painful to see Ray raging and bringing "railing accusation" in this manner (which is why I don't spend much time around here anymore), most of his interlocutors both thrive on and encourage such expression. This is, of course the way Satan works; bait the hook with every form of intellectual, emotional, and psychological incitement, and when the fish takes the bait, reel him in and call him a hypocrite and savage him for being a human being susceptible to anger and frustration at his Church and religion being mischaracterized, defamed, and distorted by interested propagandists.

I know the drill.

[_Coggins7]

Scratch is here because here Scratch is in his element: personal slander, innuendo, and ad hominem breast beating.

Scratch is attracted to threads involving angry, bitter personal exchanges like King Kong is attracted to petite blonds with good lungs.

[_rcrocket]

That's because crocket, at least, has more brains than you.

No doubt. You've already informed me I was a bitch, as well. And you know, even if every accusation you've made against me were true, I've still never said anything as vicious as "YOUR MISSIONARIES ARE DEAD."

I hope crocket and coggins think long and hard about whose bed they are hopping into. I have very little respect for either of these characters, but they are certainly not in Ray's league.

Still smarting over that Smithsonian report I located which documented pre-Columbian horses, aren't you? (C. Ray, Pre-Columbian Horses from Yucatan, The Journal of Mammalogy, Vol 38, No 2, p. 278 (1957).) I'll bet you haven't even read the article. I wouldn't worry my pretty little head over it, really. [sarcastic wink icon].

rcrocket

[_gramps]

F*** you Ray and the horse you rode in on. You have no idea what courage it took to stand up and say I DON'T BELIEVE THIS HORSE S*** ANYMORE. What courage it took to chart a new course in my life. To reach out to others who had been mis-led and lied to by a cult started by a man who couldn't keep his dick in his pants.

So F*** you Ray, go back to the cult and shut the f*** up.

Hmmmm...now I know you writes all the dialog for most of Tarantino's flicks...

Hey, Tarantino's early flicks were excellent.

I would consider that to be one of the highest compliments possible. Nice job, Infymous!