I've explained that every time I've told my story. The missionaries convinced me that since God told me the Book of Mormon was "the word of God", then that automatically meant Joseph Smith was a true prophet. I'd also had other spiritual experiences in conjunction with the LDS church, so like the vast majority of LDS, I put all those experiences together, and concluded it meant the church was true. It was only many years later, when I began reading about some of Joseph Smith' behavior, that I began to wonder if that reasoning was sound, after all.
You and Coggins are in serious trouble if you're going to insist that one must receive a specific, extraordinary, numinous event about Joseph Smith' role to "really believe" in the church, because the vast majority of members haven't even received any such specific testimony about anything - if the Mormons I knew in each of my wards were representative of the church as a whole, and I see no reason to believe they weren't. When I was losing faith, I talked to many members about my problem and asked them about their testimonies of Joseph Smith. Not a single one could respond with a singular testimonial event. Instead, they told me about their general good, spiritual feelings which they interpreted to mean "the church is true".
How interesting it is to parse all the various equivocations, labyrinthine tunnelings, and tortuous mountain paths Beastie carves out attempting to project her experience within the Church and within the context of "spiritual experiences" onto other LDS in an attempt to equate her own experiences with those of others, and hence to erect a very nice psychological edifice that she hopes will support her implied contention that most LDS, if onky they were as smart as she, as humble as she, and as enlightened as she, would, as she, leave the Church in the dust once their eyes had been opened to all the problems inherent in being a faithful member of it.
So we have her being told my missionaries that if the Book of Mormon was true, and she had received a witness from God that this was the case, then Joseph must, it logically follows, be a true prophet. This is all well and good. We then jump ahead and we find Beastie questioning if this "reasoning" was valid.
Stop. I highly doubt that at any time the missionaries told her that any process of reasoning could ever bring her to a testimony of anything, or that the logical implications inherent in accepting one aspect of the Gospel would or could ever be adequate, in spiritual sense, relative to our primary task, which is coming to a knowledge for ourselves, though the Holy Ghost, that the Church and Gospel, in all its facets, is true.
What is the pattern? What did Joseph teach? That we are to receive knowledge and intelligence and witness line upon line, until we come to the "perfect day" in which we know all things. Joseph taught that we are to move in this manner toward a point at which, in this life, we can receive a personal manifestation of Jesus Christ to us, when we are ready. This need not happen, but it can.
No Church leader had ever said that reasoning and intellectual conversion is ever enough in any area of Gospel knowledge. The challenges and opposition come within all areas, and the witness must, line upon line, precept upon precept, encompass all Gospel principles sooner or later.
The Gospel is not theoretical; it is about knowledge and experience. We see through a glass darkly but through the power of the Holy Spirit, our vision becomes progressively clearer as time goes on.
I still do not understand whether Beastie is claiming to ever have had a testimony that the Gospel, and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, God's authorized organization on the earth at the present for representing and spreading that Gospel, is true.
She claims to have known that the Book of Mormon was true, but not that its translator was true. Later, alleged claims (difficult to back up historically except through various layers of assumption and inference, and, in many cases, comfortable bias) of Joseph's supposed disreputability as a human being cause her, not only to lose her
belief in Joseph, but her
testimony of the Book of Mormon.
So it appears that her testimony of the Book of Mormon (and I'm not sure at this point what she means by "testimony" and if its the same thing I and Charity mean) was linked only in a cognitive, intellectual sense, to Joseph Smith and the Church in general.
We have all been warned, time and time again, that we cannot live on borrowed light. This is exhibit 'a' of what happens when that council is not taken seriously. There are many different kinds of conversion, but only one that is 'true". The others will suffice in fair whether, but not when "the storms come".
Now, look at this:
I've explained that every time I've told my story. The missionaries convinced me that since God told me the Book of Mormon was "the word of God", then that automatically meant Joseph Smith was a true prophet. I'd also had other spiritual experiences in conjunction with the LDS church, so like the vast majority of LDS, I put all those experiences together, and concluded it meant the church was true. It was only many years later, when I began reading about some of Joseph Smith' behavior, that I began to wonder if that reasoning was sound, after all.
You and Coggins are in serious trouble if you're going to insist that one must receive a specific, extraordinary, numinous event about Joseph Smith' role to "really believe" in the church, because the vast majority of members haven't even received any such specific testimony about anything - if the Mormons I knew in each of my wards were representative of the church as a whole, and I see no reason to believe they weren't. When I was losing faith, I talked to many members about my problem and asked them about their testimonies of Joseph Smith. Not a single one could respond with a singular testimonial event. Instead, they told me about their general good, spiritual feelings which they interpreted to mean "the church is true".
Beastie talks to a few members of her ward about her problems and from this concluded, from the few answers she received, that the vast majority of members (some 13 million) " haven't even received any such specific testimony about anything".
Beastie now joins Kimberly, Alan Dershowitz, Korihor, and a few others here who have achieved insight into the spiritual lives of others such that they can now assure themselves that there apostasy or lack of belief in God is justified since nobody else has any idea about this stuff either.
How do I know this? Well, I asked a few people...
Oh, and of course, if Beastie doesn't know something, than no one else can either. That's just not fair...
I have a testimony about a number of things, including Joseph's calling as the Lord's prophet. It didn't come all at once (as some other witnesses have), but, like Boris Karloff said about Christmas, it came all the same.