New YouTube vid shows church DECLINE

[_Ray A]

Monson is 79 or 80. Packer is like 81, Nelson 80 or 81, Eyring mid 70's, Oaks Maybe 71 0r 72, And Holland is 66 or so.

For these other, you and I will be dead by then

President Monson turned 80 on August 21 (he became an apostle at 36). For bios of the GAs: http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/without/wol3/menu.htm

[_Pokatator]

If you go to YouTube and view this video, do a couple of searches on anything Mormon and you will see a huge array of videos about the Mormons. A few are positive but my perception is the bulk is negative to the church. This media is a new missionary for or against the church. This is the way that a new generation gets much of its information. You can find information on polygamy, DNA, genealogy, Book of Mormon, Book of Abraham and many other subjects in a form that is easier than reading a book. It seems to me that the volume has increased even in that last 6 months or so. I see the future becoming more difficult for the church as the internet and websites like these gain steam.

I don't think so. I think the church will adapt and make whatever changes are necessary to appeal to the masses. AFTER the current crop of leaders is dead (so we likely have a few years to wait). I think the church will open up the priesthood to women, because doing so will bring in a whole bunch of new converts. AFTER the current crop of leaders is dead.

I don't dismiss the power of the church to spin and adapt. I think the change in the Book of Mormon intro is just that kind of spin and adaptation. I guess I found it impressive to spend a very little time on YouTube and be able to view several videos that interview the people that are mentioned on these boards. Some of those people that I was able to put faces to names were Tom Murphy, Simon Southernton, Brent Metcalf and John Ritner. Plus many others that are not mentioned here. That is just from about 30 minutes on the site. To me the faces and actual voices are powerful and an easy way to become aware of different issues. Perhaps it is so new too me that I am overly impressed.

I agree that the church will work hard to counter the movement but I don't think the church will change that much even with a young change of the guard. If it changes at all it will be very slow.

[_Polygamy Porter]

Paul Maughan strikes again!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAP2KLk920w

I don't know how you do it, PP. That was another very moving You Tube clip! I could hardly read the writing about "wards lost" because of listening to "The Spirit of God Like Fire Is Burning". My God, this is such a powerful religion! And the great finale was President Hinckley breaking down in tears, because of his absolute, and total conviction, which seemed to reflect, "If only you knew what I knew".

Thank you, PP!

"Two men looked out from prison bars, one saw mud, the other saw stars."

Keep in mind Ray, you are counted as a lost member. Thanks for being counted on our side!

[_Inconceivable]

A real nice family joined the church in my family's ward about a month ago. They're extremely happy. There's that countenance about them where they have a new hope and vitality for life. They're just down our little street. I got a chance to meet them last week. I really like them.

I wonder how long they will remain. It burns my heart that they have been betrayed even if it is by mostly well meaning sheep. It's not right to do such violence to good people. It will most likely jade them as it has me for a time.


I question the statistics in the video but I think that any country that has access to the internet will fail in Mormon church growth from here on out (particularly if you don't count member births).

There comes a time when damage control is as affective as ..man stretching forth his puny arm to stop the Missouri river in its decreed course, or to turn it up stream..

(Doctrine and Covenants | Section 121:33)

I can see that the force of historical truth is cracking the great Mormon damn I thought impermiable.

Who would have thought I would ever see myself disaffected?

[_Polygamy Porter]

A real nice family joined the church in my family's ward about a month ago. They're extremely happy. There's that countenance about them where they have a new hope and vitality for life. They're just down our little street. I got a chance to meet them last week. I really like them.

I wonder how long they will remain. It burns my heart that they have been betrayed even if it is by mostly well meaning sheep. It's not right to do such violence to good people. It will most likely jade them as it has me for a time.

I envy you.

I wish I was so lucky as to have fresh meat so close!

I would love to be there when the WTF moment arrives across their unwitting sappy faces!

[_Ray A]

Keep in mind Ray, you are counted as a lost member. Thanks for being counted on our side!

I accept credit cards. :)

[_Inconceivable]

A real nice family joined the church in my family's ward about a month ago. They're extremely happy. There's that countenance about them where they have a new hope and vitality for life. They're just down our little street. I got a chance to meet them last week. I really like them.

I wonder how long they will remain. It burns my heart that they have been betrayed even if it is by mostly well meaning sheep. It's not right to do such violence to good people. It will most likely jade them as it has me for a time.

I envy you.

I wish I was so lucky as to have fresh meat so close!

I would love to be there when the WTF moment arrives across their unwitting sappy faces!

Fresh meat? No, these are human beings and good people. I don't want to witness another "WTF moment" anymore than I like to see a header on the freeway. I don't feel like that at all.

For me, it still hurts like hell that there is a probability I could lose some of my children or my bride over my disaffection. Yeah, I'm still extremely angry. But I don't want to complicate my life anymore for the moment by pissing off half my neighbors. My family is really suffering from uncertainty right now.

[_Ray A]

For me, it still hurts like hell that there is a probability I could lose some of my children or my bride over my disaffection. Yeah, I'm still extremely angry. But I don't want to complicate my life anymore for the moment by pissing off half my neighbors. My family is really suffering from uncertainty right now.

Sorry to hear this. And sorry to bore you with a platitude: Been there, done that. Life is still beautiful, and there is life "after Mormonism".

[_Inconceivable]

Sorry to hear this. And sorry to bore you with a platitude: Been there, done that. Life is still beautiful, and there is life "after Mormonism".

er.. thanks, Ray.

I thought you were out but trying to get back in.

and yes, no doubt there is beauty in life and I've witnessed it. I'm just dealing with mostly things that have Picaso'd my family's life for now. I fail to see beauty in this type of art/reality.

[_Ray A]

Sorry to hear this. And sorry to bore you with a platitude: Been there, done that. Life is still beautiful, and there is life "after Mormonism".

er.. thanks, Ray.

I thought you were out but trying to get back in.

and yes, no doubt there is beauty in life and I've witnessed it. I'm just dealing with mostly things that have Picaso'd my family's life for now. I fail to see beauty in this type of art/reality.

Contrary to "some" popular opinion, I'm not trying to get back in. I've taken what I, in my biased opinion, consider the best in Mormonism, and rejected the rest.

I know you feel much heartache, and I really feel for you. I could tell from your post. Seven years ago I considered taking my life, for a few seconds anyway. Good music, and a few beers, and positive thinking, made me realise that no one person, or event, can bring me happiness, but that I must create my own happiness. I lost everything I held dear. So I went out and bought my $20 toaster, because I had nothing left after I was raided. From there I worked up to buying a car, and restarting my life. My attitude was that sometimes in life you're the dog, other times you're the pole. When you're the dog, make sure you piss as hard as you can. Karma, and all that.

My philosophy was, "this, too, will pass". And it did. Best wishes to you. Never despair! When one door closes, another opens.