For Mormons and Exmormons: Object Lessons in Church

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_Yoda

Post by _Yoda »

Although LifeOnAPlate did discredit you on that thread, and he should have done more to specifically apologize for mischaracterizing what you said, his most recent comment on the MAD thread addressed your issue, and he agrees with you:

LifeOnAPlate from MAD wrote:I think the cupcake teaches us that some people lean on ridiculous object lessons to teach principles that need to be discussed frankly and maturely.


LifeOnAPlate wrote:Additionally, it appears the object lessons involving cakes, etc. are obviously more widespread than I originally thought. I don't believe a majority of Church members would be familiar with them, but any is too many. Down with these kitchy garbage lessons.

Here is the link:

http://www.mormonapologetics.org/index. ... 551&st=400
Last edited by _Yoda on Fri Nov 09, 2007 3:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
_LifeOnaPlate
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Post by _LifeOnaPlate »

Can't please some folks. From your point of view the cupcake lesson is a regular bonifide lesson taught in most Wards and branches. I disagree. You see the issue in black and white, in my opinion, sorry for having an opinion that doesn't suit your taste in every case.
No hope for us, KA. I bid you goodbye forever. I will trouble you no more. :)
One moment in annihilation's waste,
one moment, of the well of life to taste-
The stars are setting and the caravan
starts for the dawn of nothing; Oh, make haste!

-Omar Khayaam

*Be on the lookout for the forthcoming album from Jiminy Finn and the Moneydiggers.*
_Trinity
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Post by _Trinity »

KA,

Let's broaden the scope. I heard the smashed wedding cake object lesson while attending the Daughters in Zion YW conference in August 1984 at Flagstaff Arizona (NAU campus). It was a huge, multi-state conference attended by young women in AZ, CO, NM. My high school journal reads:

*** and I went to the class "Keeping yourself clean before the world" this afternoon before we went out running. We are really excited for the 5K run tomorrow. Everyone is supposed to run so it is going to be a busy race! Anyway, the teacher in our class helped me to stay on my diet for sure! In the middle of the front table was a beautiful white wedding cake that had three tiers. It had the prettiest decorations on it with live white lilies on it. I don't think that *** (Trinity note: my sister who does cake decorating) could have done such a nice job. The teacher asked us if we liked the wedding cake as she had made it especially for this class. Then she and this other lady took two old rusty hammers and started pounding the cake until the top tier smashed down into the next until it was a heap on the bottom layer. I couldn't believe it! Then she got some plates and started scooping up globs of cake and asked us if we would like some. Gross! It looked absolutely disgusting. There were two girls that got up and everyone laughed. Then she said this cake was like chastity, and how important it is that we keep ourselves untouched so that we can remain white and beautiful until we are married. I am soooo glad that I have made a vow to stay a virgin until I get married in the temple.


by the way, my journal did not have the conference program attached to it (I am pretty certain I have it in my scrapbook for that period of time in my life), but I am almost certain this class was a required course for all attendees of the conference. There was just short of 7,000 young women who attended, If I recall correctly. I was on the Leadership Guard and there were seven leadership groups...one for each 1,000 girls.

As an awful sidenote, I was beyond perky in my high school years. I can't believe how bobbleheaded my journal reads. It's almost painful to go back through these old journals, particularly ages 16-19 when I was doing a youth mission and my freshman year at BYU.
_LifeOnaPlate
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Post by _LifeOnaPlate »

Boooooo to that object lesson.
One moment in annihilation's waste,
one moment, of the well of life to taste-
The stars are setting and the caravan
starts for the dawn of nothing; Oh, make haste!

-Omar Khayaam

*Be on the lookout for the forthcoming album from Jiminy Finn and the Moneydiggers.*
_SatanWasSetUp
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Post by _SatanWasSetUp »

LifeOnaPlate wrote:Can't please some folks. From your point of view the cupcake lesson is a regular bonifide lesson taught in most Wards and branches. I disagree. You see the issue in black and white, in my opinion, sorry for having an opinion that doesn't suit your taste in every case.
No hope for us, KA. I bid you goodbye forever. I will trouble you no more. :)


LOAP, you are in denial. We have anectdotal stories here, plus a written lesson plan available at Deseret books. Have you ever had a lesson in church? It is very, very, very common for the teacher to use an analogy, and sometimes they use real objects to drive home the point of the analogy. The cupcake lesson is simply an analogy.
"We of this Church do not rely on any man-made statement concerning the nature of Deity. Our knowledge comes directly from the personal experience of Joseph Smith." - Gordon B. Hinckley

"It's wrong to criticize leaders of the Mormon Church even if the criticism is true." - Dallin H. Oaks
_LifeOnaPlate
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Post by _LifeOnaPlate »

SatanWasSetUp wrote:
LOAP, you are in denial. We have anectdotal stories here, plus a written lesson plan available at Deseret books. Have you ever had a lesson in church? It is very, very, very common for the teacher to use an analogy, and sometimes they use real objects to drive home the point of the analogy. The cupcake lesson is simply an analogy.


A very poor and misplaced analogy.
One moment in annihilation's waste,
one moment, of the well of life to taste-
The stars are setting and the caravan
starts for the dawn of nothing; Oh, make haste!

-Omar Khayaam

*Be on the lookout for the forthcoming album from Jiminy Finn and the Moneydiggers.*
_harmony
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Post by _harmony »

MishMagnet wrote:Licked cupcake indeed. Very, very seriously the lessons should be aimed at the Lord knowing our sins no more. NO MORE - if that is indeed what the church teaches. This was not my personal understanding of the atonement as an active member and is obviously not the understanding of those I've mentioned here. I don't know that one really ever is absolved of sexual sin in the church. This is not my understanding based on my own experiences. Missionaries that are not able to serve if they've had sex, having to confess one's sins to more than one Bishop along the way and so forth. It's not good enough to talk repentance if you don't show it as well.


I think this is the crux of the matter. For a church that teaches so much about the Atonement, we don't emphasize the part about God forgiving and forgetting about the sin nearly enough. I had an TR interview with my bishop just last Sunday and when he asked the question about did I have any unresolved sins that needed priesthood authority, I almost laughed. It's not that I have unresolved sins of that caliber (although I'm sure I have many of a lesser caliber). In my estimation, no sin requires priesthood authority, since priesthood authority is a manmade construct. Sin is a matter between the person and God, with no interference needed from any man. Bishops don't give forgiveness, and bishops sure as heck don't forget. God, on the other hand, does both. And that's why I'm certain Christ is not at the head of this church, if he ever was. Men run this church and have since the beginning. And this concept is manifest in their refusal to share their power with women.

These object lessons have their uses. I've used the Ding Dong lesson in many a youth training, to get the youth to understand the ramifications of early sexual activity. However, the lesson isn't presented in any manner that would connotate that "sin" was involved or that "forgiveness" was necessary. It's presented with the idea that unprotected sex can lead to STD's, sterility, and death. When the spirituality of the lesson is gone, so is the sting.
_barrelomonkeys
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Post by _barrelomonkeys »

LifeOnaPlate wrote:Sex isn't a sin. Fornication and adultery are sins.


Well isn't fornication just sex outside marriage? Why is that a sin?

Is that really somewhere in the Bible? Or the Book of Mormon?
_LifeOnaPlate
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Post by _LifeOnaPlate »

barrelomonkeys wrote:
LifeOnaPlate wrote:Sex isn't a sin. Fornication and adultery are sins.


Well isn't fornication just sex outside marriage? Why is that a sin?

Is that really somewhere in the Bible? Or the Book of Mormon?


Don't ya know? Cuz God said so! Yes it is in both.
One moment in annihilation's waste,
one moment, of the well of life to taste-
The stars are setting and the caravan
starts for the dawn of nothing; Oh, make haste!

-Omar Khayaam

*Be on the lookout for the forthcoming album from Jiminy Finn and the Moneydiggers.*
_barrelomonkeys
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Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2007 7:00 pm

Post by _barrelomonkeys »

LifeOnaPlate wrote:
barrelomonkeys wrote:
LifeOnaPlate wrote:Sex isn't a sin. Fornication and adultery are sins.


Well isn't fornication just sex outside marriage? Why is that a sin?

Is that really somewhere in the Bible? Or the Book of Mormon?


Don't ya know? Cuz God said so! Yes it is in both.


Oh shoot! Can you find the passages for me? Seriously.

Dag nabbit!
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