Joseph Smith: Narcissistic Personality Disorder?

[_Trinity]

I have it on good word that it is possible Joseph Smith had acid reflux.

I had him tagged with a minor form of epilepsy.

[_ktallamigo]

I have never met anyone with a narcissistic diagnosis who could even remotely be capable of being a charismatic leader. On the other hand, someone with hypomania would be an energetic and entertaining leader. In the hypomanic state their thinking is not only lucid, but somewhat enhanced albeit tending toward the grandiose and hypersexual. Their flow of creative ideas would be enhanced as well. They would even get a big kick out of stick-pull wrestling.

I've heard Bill Clinton characterized as NPD, and he was definitely a charismatic leader, energetic, entertaining, hypersexual, etc.

[_beastie]

I've heard Bill Clinton characterized as NPD, and he was definitely a charismatic leader, energetic, entertaining, hypersexual, etc.

I seriously doubt Clinton has been diagnosed with NPD.

This is one of those terms that has become somewhat diluted through popular use. People usually mean that the person has narcissistic traits rather than having NPD. A true narcissist isn't just self-centered and egotistical. A true narcissist doesn't view other human beings as "real". They have zero empathy and compassion. They are often abusive to familial members.

Joseph Smith was egotistical and self-centered, no doubt. But he did, at times, demonstrate empathy and compassion, such as when he stayed up all night with the sick twins. A true narcissist wouldn't be bothered.

[_Ray A]

I've heard Bill Clinton characterized as NPD, and he was definitely a charismatic leader, energetic, entertaining, hypersexual, etc.

Was he a fraud? If not, why?

[_Runtu]

I was just thinking that it's too bad Wade didn't live back in the 1830s. Maybe he could have used cognitive behavioral therapy to help Joseph Smith overcome these disorders. :)

I've said before that I don't know what to make of Joseph Smith. To me he is a mass of confusion.

[_ktallamigo]

I've heard Bill Clinton characterized as NPD, and he was definitely a charismatic leader, energetic, entertaining, hypersexual, etc.

I seriously doubt Clinton has been diagnosed with NPD.

This is one of those terms that has become somewhat diluted through popular use. People usually mean that the person has narcissistic traits rather than having NPD. A true narcissist isn't just self-centered and egotistical. A true narcissist doesn't view other human beings as "real". They have zero empathy and compassion. They are often abusive to familial members.

Joseph Smith was egotistical and self-centered, no doubt. But he did, at times, demonstrate empathy and compassion, such as when he stayed up all night with the sick twins. A true narcissist wouldn't be bothered.

Yeah, I don't think Clinton was ever DIAGNOSED NPD. But I've heard people refer to him as such. Yes, he did "feel our pain..." So, that implies empathy - if it was sincere.

Don't get me wrong -- I liked Clinton. Voted for him twice. He was certainly a better alternative than the others - and unfortunately still carried out very imperialistic policies, and brought forth things we are still suffering from, such as NAFTA.

Narcissists are capable of doing great things and performing great acts of charity - as long as they have an audience to watch them do it, and have it written for history's sake that they stayed up all night caring for the twins. Narcissists know how to pretend to be compassionate and empathetic when they want to impress.

In fact, I've heard it said that if you go visit volunteer groups, or organizations that champion some particular cause -- you will find a room full of narcissists. I'm not trying to say that there are only narcissists there, but that narcissists like to look good in these kinds of settings.

A personal note: My spouse, a diagnosed narcissist, performs many acts of charity, is a volunteer on many community boards, is an elected official, and everyone in town thought he was the worlds greatest guy. That was when the audience was around. When there was no audience - things were different

ktall

[_beastie]

Narcissists are capable of doing great things and performing great acts of charity - as long as they have an audience to watch them do it, and have it written for history's sake that they stayed up all night caring for the twins. Narcissists know how to pretend to be compassionate and empathetic when they want to impress.

Well, here's the problem, for me. It seems that literally nothing can be used as evidence against Joseph Smith being clinically NPD. Any seeming act of compassion or charity can be for show, can't it?

So, in a way, it becomes sort of a pointless conversation (for me). Yeah, he had narcissistic traits. He definitely had delusions of grandeur. Was he clinically NPD? I think that's impossible to say.

[_ktallamigo]

Well, here's the problem, for me. It seems that literally nothing can be used as evidence against Joseph Smith being clinically NPD. Any seeming act of compassion or charity can be for show, can't it?

So, in a way, it becomes sort of a pointless conversation (for me). Yeah, he had narcissistic traits. He definitely had delusions of grandeur. Was he clinically NPD? I think that's impossible to say.

Point well taken.

However, I still think it would be interesting to read the Anderson book, see what he says.


ktall

[_beastie]

Point well taken.

However, I still think it would be interesting to read the Anderson book, see what he says.

I read his book, but it's been a while. If I recall correctly, he was also somewhat open to another disorder like bipolar, but maybe I am misremembering.

[_truth dancer]

I get the sense that some folks use the term "narcissistic" in the sense one is full of him/herself which is different than NPD which is more a person with very low self-esteem who wants to appear great. So long as there is the applause and glory they seem to manage but when the lights go down, or when others aren't clapping, another person appears.

I'm not an expert but I truly get the sense that Joseph Smith did indeed believe he was divinely appointed from God which is consistent with delusions of grandure. In addition he seems to think he is receiving messages from God everywhere and in everything. (Very similar to others I know with this disorder). The voices in his head, the peep stones, the hat, the papyri, a skeleton, and anything else, seem to him to be some sort of revelation. Again this fits with delusion disorder.

The thing is to truly diagnose someone with a mental illness, particularly a personality disorder, one must be very familiar with all the possible multiple variables. It is a rather complicated process.

Regardless I think you will enjoy Dr. Anderson's book...he is a brilliant man and a very well respected psychiatrist.

~dancer~