Open-mindedness vs. Close-mindedness

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_Zoidberg
_Emeritus
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Post by _Zoidberg »

Bond...James Bond wrote:Not sure people can be openminded, but people can definitely be closeminded.

For evidence: Look at coggins on economic theory.


Shhh! Or he'll come over here and try to prove to us all that open-minded people are really anarchists.
"reason and religion are friends and allies" - Mitt Romney
_Trinity
_Emeritus
Posts: 426
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 12:36 pm

Post by _Trinity »

This thread reminds me of the conscious competence learning model. I am sure many of you are familiar with it:

Conscious Competence Model

Thinking back to my exit from the Mormon thinking world, it was a distinct trip from the unconscious incompetent to the conscious incompetent. I became brutally aware of how little I really did know. The last paragraph applies to how open-minded a person can be. Generally, it is a dance between the mind and the heart as to whether or not one finds themselves open and accepting to new ideas.

And also as it applies within this model, I know quite a few believing members (lots of family members included) who live and breathe their entire religious life within the unconscious incompetent box of this model. Yet they feel like they are very knowledgeable and prefer to remain in the box where their view of the facts are indisputable and sure rather than being exposed to any other data which might potentially threaten the integrity of their world view. Their scope of knowledge remains safely within the narrow confines of this box. I should clarify that these people are not stupid or uneducated people at all.

From the website:

Unconscious incompetence

As an unconscious incompetent, you do not know what you do not know. You lack knowledge and skills in the area in question and are unaware of this lack. In this state, where you can exist for a very long time, you are not as competent as one or more of:

You think you are
You actually could be
Other, more competent people

In this state, you may be in one of two positions. Ignorance is bliss, as they say, and you may well be happily naïve, not realizing that you are not competent.

You also may be in a faking state, where you believe you are competent, and either do not realize that you are in this state or are covering up your incompetence (in which state you may be in the next stage).

Conscious incompetence

As a conscious incompetent, you realize that you are not as expert as perhaps you thought you were or thought you could be.

The transition to this state from being unconsciously incompetent can be a shocking and sudden realization, for example when you meet others who are clearly more competent than you, or when a friend holds up a metaphorical mirror to your real ability.

You can also exist in this state for a long time, depending on factors such as your determination to learn and the real extent to which you accept your incompetence.
_Roger Morrison
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Post by _Roger Morrison »

An interesting topic. I recall some time ago months/years?? a TBM trashed an "Open mind lets thing fall out." or some-such. Made me think, a "Closed mind mustn't have anything in it." Anyway...

I'm trying to find what Charity couldn't find in the Ensign, and i can't find her post. I just did and UL'd what i think realllly needs looking at:


Quote:
I can't find the Ensign I am looking for, but there is an article that has this in it: Don't let the things you don't know lead you away from the things you do know. I would think that for a 35+ year period, you were having spiritual confirmations of different things. Otherwise why would you have stuck it out that long?


What kind of kiddy-talk is that? I'm not the brightest guy Charity, so will You please explain that to me? I thought, what you do know should lead you to what you don't know?? Is there something wrong with not-knowing and wanting to know?

OTOH, i can imagine that in the "Ensign." Probably lifted from "The Children's Friend"... For shame... Really Chartiy

Further, you gotta know it's not only "spiritual confirmations" that keeps one in the Church--principally ;-) but the general sense of good feelings one has with friends, family etc. until, that is, the good feelings don't compensate for the bads. Or, is your mind closed to that reality? Warm regards, Roger
_KimberlyAnn
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Post by _KimberlyAnn »

Hi, Guy.

I'd certainly like to think I'm more-open minded since leaving Mormonism, but I can be very stubborn when my mind's made up on something. For example, I believe Mormonism to be false with enough certainty that I don't feel the need to entertain the idea that it may be true.

I have changed my thinking on many issues in the past couple of years and have no problem studying an issue and changing my opinion if I'm satisfied I should, so perhaps I'm more open-minded, but neither do I feel "wishy-washy". Wishy-washy is such a negative thing to me, I'm actually glad I err on the side of stubbornness. :)

KA
_Trinity
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Posts: 426
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 12:36 pm

Post by _Trinity »

Roger Morrison wrote:An interesting topic. I recall some time ago months/years?? a TBM trashed an "Open mind lets thing fall out." or some-such. Made me think, a "Closed mind mustn't have anything in it." Anyway...

I'm trying to find what Charity couldn't find in the Ensign, and I can't find her post. I just did and UL'd what I think realllly needs looking at:


Quote:
I can't find the Ensign I am looking for, but there is an article that has this in it: Don't let the things you don't know lead you away from the things you do know. I would think that for a 35+ year period, you were having spiritual confirmations of different things. Otherwise why would you have stuck it out that long?


What kind of kiddy-talk is that? I'm not the brightest guy Charity, so will You please explain that to me? I thought, what you do know should lead you to what you don't know?? Is there something wrong with not-knowing and wanting to know?

OTOH, I can imagine that in the "Ensign." Probably lifted from "The Children's Friend"... For shame... Really Chartiy

Further, you gotta know it's not only "spiritual confirmations" that keeps one in the Church--principally ;-) but the general sense of good feelings one has with friends, family etc. until, that is, the good feelings don't compensate for the bads. Or, is your mind closed to that reality? Warm regards, Roger


You're thinking of that quote that says "“I try to keep an open mind, but not so open that my brains fall out.”

My favorite quote is one that says something to the effect that an open mind leaves a chance for someone to drop a worthwhile thought in it.
_LifeOnaPlate
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Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 4:50 pm

Post by _LifeOnaPlate »

Guys, I just wanted to say I'm plenty open-minded. I didn't take time to read this waste of a time thread, but y'all need to quit judging me.
One moment in annihilation's waste,
one moment, of the well of life to taste-
The stars are setting and the caravan
starts for the dawn of nothing; Oh, make haste!

-Omar Khayaam

*Be on the lookout for the forthcoming album from Jiminy Finn and the Moneydiggers.*
_ktallamigo
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Joined: Tue May 08, 2007 1:51 am

Re: Open-mindedness vs. Close-mindedness

Post by _ktallamigo »

As I stated in another thread, I changed my political views as a young woman in my 20's. It was my education at the UofU, in history, that changed my political views. However, I stayed active TBM until this year.

I grew up in a right-wing household, became the only political liberal in my family. I've always considered myself morally conservative, politically liberal.

Before-Mormon Church true
After-Mormon Church not true, but I'm not 100% sure, still wishing it were true
Before-God real
After- I'm not sure - I really want to believe .. but I just don't know
Before-Oppose private school voucher
After-Oppose private school voucher - huge supporter of the public schools!!!
Before-Homosexuality a sin
After- Homsexuality people born with propensity for this - they can't help it, it's just the way they are
Before-Anti same sex marriage
After- Perhaps some kind of civil arrangment - but not marriage
Before-capital punishment - only for the most heinous crimes, when proof is irrefutable
After- same
Before-Against abortion, but still feel safe abortions should be available and legal for those who choose this.
After- I still believe safe abortions should be legal. They should only be allowed in the first trimester. I would never do it myself.
Before-War on drugs is really about control of illegal drug trade - good fundraiser for covert ops
After- marijuana should be made legal
Before-oppose Iraq war
After-oppose Iraq war
Before-sex outside marriage wrong
After-Not sure
Before-Adultery wrong
After-Adultery still wrong, especially when children are involved.


ktall
"Brigham said the day would come when thousands would be made Eunuchs in order for them to be saved in the kingdom of God." (Wilford Woodruff's Diary, June 2, 1857, Vol. 5, pages 54-55)
_ktallamigo
_Emeritus
Posts: 178
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Post by _ktallamigo »

LifeOnaPlate wrote:Guys, I just wanted to say I'm plenty open-minded. I didn't take time to read this waste of a time thread, but y'all need to quit judging me.



You are probably the 3rd or 4th biggest smart-ass around here.
"Brigham said the day would come when thousands would be made Eunuchs in order for them to be saved in the kingdom of God." (Wilford Woodruff's Diary, June 2, 1857, Vol. 5, pages 54-55)
_barrelomonkeys
_Emeritus
Posts: 3004
Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2007 7:00 pm

Post by _barrelomonkeys »

Zoidberg wrote:
Bond...James Bond wrote:Not sure people can be openminded, but people can definitely be closeminded.

For evidence: Look at coggins on economic theory.


Shhh! Or he'll come over here and try to prove to us all that open-minded people are really anarchists.


No they're fascists or usually wear white robes with pointy hoods. shhhhhh
_KimberlyAnn
_Emeritus
Posts: 3171
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2007 2:03 pm

Post by _KimberlyAnn »

ktallamigo wrote:
LifeOnaPlate wrote:Guys, I just wanted to say I'm plenty open-minded. I didn't take time to read this waste of a time thread, but y'all need to quit judging me.



You are probably the 3rd or 4th biggest smart-ass around here.


Yes. Smart-ass-on-a-plate. (LOaP, I couldn't resist, lol!)

Sorry, Ktall, it's a joke from another thread. :)

KA
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