Reporting abuse up the chain of command

[_beastie]

I just tend to be skeptical. Trust but verify. Do you really think "trust but don't verify" is a good way to make decisions?

Oh. My. God.

[_karl61]

I agree the interviews are invasive and show poor boundaries - what happens after that is the snow ball effect - after that they want to know when your going to start your two years of converting others to the church - without you even knowing anything about the real church...and it keeps going until they have all your time laid out for you and have you promise your IRA payments to the church. And then you know what it means to bind, blind and grind.

[_Pokatator]

From what I have seen here, I think one of the most often displayed behaviors of Charity is that of jumping to conclusions, flying off the handle and running off at the mouth. Well, that and paranoia.

Oh, please. Beastie said I made assumptions about her babysitter that I never made, and I am the one who jumps to conclusions?

Oh, about the babysitter. Yes I did jump to a conclusion. In my sphere, we refer to adults who take care of our children as "child care providers." We use the term "babysitter" for a teenager. So, yes, I jumped to a conclusion. But not that her babysitter was not to be believed because she was "sinful."

I just tend to be skeptical. Trust but verify. Do you really think "trust but don't verify" is a good way to make decisions?

Oh, pahlease! I just wanted you to see your own words in a different context and guess what I think you jumped to another conclusion, flew off the handle and ran off at the keyboard, again!

[_asbestosman]

I really don't remember if my babysitter reported the abuse to the stake president. But look at what you've just done, charity. You automatically insinuated that she wasn't telling the full story. She was a fornicator, after all, dealing with moral issues. Why do you imagine that the stake president would have reacted any differently?

Because I think the church would be embarassed by his behavior. I mean obviously most of us (apparently charity and myself included) think the church ought to be embarassed by such actions.


As to the tangent about private bishop interviews, I foresee the church installing windows on all bishop's offices and possibly requiring a counselor to be present. I also foresee changes to youth interviews most likely including a parent being present. I see all this happening long before the church accepts homosexual marraige or women in the priesthood (assuming it ever does those things which is something I do not assume).

[_beastie]

Because I think the church would be embarassed by his behavior. I mean obviously most of us (apparently charity and myself included) think the church ought to be embarassed by such actions.


As to the tangent about private bishop interviews, I foresee the church installing windows on all bishop's offices and possibly requiring a counselor to be present. I also foresee changes to youth interviews most likely including a parent being present. I see all this happening long before the church accepts homosexual marraige or women in the priesthood (assuming it ever does those things which is something I do not assume).

Of course they would be embarrassed, unless he justified himself in some way that appeased them. ("I was just trying to determine her level of repentance.") But that doesn't mean they would have done something that could have actually called attention to his behavior, which would heighten the potential embarrassment.

A counselor being present is a good idea. I doubt parents will be invited in, although they should.

[_Zoidberg]

I just tend to be skeptical. Trust but verify. Do you really think "trust but don't verify" is a good way to make decisions?

I second beastie. So how do you propose we verify the claims of the Book of Mormon witnesses?

[_Polygamy Porter]

I just tend to be skeptical. Trust but verify. Do you really think "trust but don't verify" is a good way to make decisions?

I second beastie. So how do you propose we verify the claims of the Book of Mormon witnesses?

Oh don't get her started.

Since 11 of his closest buddies supposedly vouched for his scam and since the story goes that all of them who left Mormonism never recanted their story, well it stands as a testament of truth!

Also, look at the character of these witnesses. Most of them also believed Joseph Strang's story, founder of yet another splinter Mormon group: http://www.strangite.org/

James J. Strang translated metallic plates and eleven witnesses signed testimonies that they saw the plates—none ever denied their testimony. The testimony of the Voree Plates is published in the Revelations of James J. Strang; and the testimony to the Book of the Law of the Lord is published in front of that law.

Brighamites, Strangites, Mormon, LDS, FLDS, RLDS(CoC).. all the same.

A tough question for charity to answer would be WHY did Joe not show the plates to his father-in-law? That fellow was educated.

Further, why did he not have unbiased professional scholars vouch for them?

[_asbestosman]

Of course they would be embarrassed, unless he justified himself in some way that appeased them. ("I was just trying to determine her level of repentance.") But that doesn't mean they would have done something that could have actually called attention to his behavior, which would heighten the potential embarrassment.

Does the church really not think that these people will talk to others (say a person named Beastie) about these things if the church refuses to address it? I would think the church would be more afraid of embarassment esepecially after the recent child abuse lawsuits.

[_beastie]

Does the church really not think that these people will talk to others (say a person named Beastie) about these things if the church refuses to address it? I would think the church would be more afraid of embarassment esepecially after the recent child abuse lawsuits.

I think that eventually your reasoning will have an effect. But the church is directed by men who are somewhat cloistered, so the change takes a long time.

by the way, this incident occurred about ten years ago, before the recent scandals erupted. I don't think she felt that she had any recourse, which is why she just stopped attending.