I welcomed Charity here a while back and stated that I was glad she was here. I have had a couple of "run ins" with her lately. But I am still glad she is here. I really do believe that everyone is welcome and should be welcome.
As to snide remarks, I actually went back and reviewed the last 6-7 major threads and looked only for Charity's snide remarks. I compiled a list of many. But, I also looked at mine in the process. I have many. Overall, I believe mine are worse, but I know they are worse and sadly and unfairly, I expect that behavior out of me more than I expect it out of Charity. I guess my only complain with Charity is that I don't feel that she can see her self ever being snide, or pert, or sometimes coming off with a superior attitude or that she ever gives a neener neener. I recognize that I do and I do it too often. I also believe that Charity has been pert, etc. with many that don't deserve it like I do. The one I think that of, in particular, is Runtu. I think he is one of kindest here and kinder than Charity. I would do myself a great service to be more like Runtu on this board. For the most part Charity is a kind person too.
All and all I am glad Charity is here.
I think it would be morally right to lie about your religion to edit the article favorably. bcspace
infymus: you still haven't called and I didn't see any recent light bulb jokes. Please call, I'm worried!
One moment in annihilation's waste, one moment, of the well of life to taste- The stars are setting and the caravan starts for the dawn of nothing; Oh, make haste! -Omar Khayaam
Pokatator wrote:As to snide remarks, I actually went back and reviewed the last 6-7 major threads and looked only for Charity's snide remarks. I compiled a list of many. But, I also looked at mine in the process. I have many. Overall, I believe mine are worse, but I know they are worse and sadly and unfairly, I expect that behavior out of me more than I expect it out of Charity. I guess my only complain with Charity is that I don't feel that she can see her self ever being snide, or pert, or sometimes coming off with a superior attitude or that she ever gives a neener neener. I recognize that I do and I do it too often. I also believe that Charity has been pert, etc. with many that don't deserve it like I do. The one I think that of, in particular, is Runtu. I think he is one of kindest here and kinder than Charity. I would do myself a great service to be more like Runtu on this board. For the most part Charity is a kind person too.
And your point is . . . what, exactly?
"Finally, for your rather strange idea that miracles are somehow linked to the amount of gay sexual gratification that is taking place would require that primitive Christianity was launched by gay sex, would it not?"
If you read that and are now reading this, please understand that regardless of how other participants may or may not feel, you are just as welcome here as is anyone else.
Thanks.
Amen. Sometimes it's really weird when I'm the card carrying member of the church around here.
Yes....critics are always a little taken aback when liberal Mormons like Harmony, Jason, and myself actually defend the Church on occasion.
Sethbag wrote:I also don't believe the Urim and Thummim is in the Church's possession, but my reason is a bit different. I don't think there ever was a Urim and Thummim, at least not one that Joseph Smith or anyone else in the LDS church ever had.
According to D. Michael Quinn in Early Mormonism and the Magic World View, Revised & Enlarged Edition (Salt Lake City: Signature Books, 1998), the "Urim & Thummim" was merely the nickname given to Joseph Smith's white seer stone that he used during the production of the lost 116 pages. That nickname--first given by Wilford Woodruff, if memory serves--seems to have taken on a life of its own after the fact.
The church still has it.
That may be. I was referring specifically to the notion of Urim and Thummim as a breastplate, onto which is mounted a silver bow, to which two stones are attached. I don't believe that Joseph Smith every had possession of a breastplate with a silver bow with two stones attached. As you say, that part may have "evolved" over time.
Does anyone know the chronology of the belief in the breastplate with silver bow and two stones?
Mormonism ceased being a compelling topic for me when I finally came to terms with its transformation from a personality cult into a combination of a real estate company, a SuperPac, and Westboro Baptist Church. - Kishkumen
Infymus wrote:Is there any way to put Mormons like Charity on ignore - so you never have to see a single post from them? Charity's posts on FAIR/MAD are nauseating enough, now we have to endure them here.
CHARITY:
If you read that and are now reading this, please understand that regardless of how other participants may or may not feel, you are just as welcome here as is anyone else.
Well said Shades. Charity and others like her reaffirm to me that my decision renouncing Mormonism is the best course of action in dealing with the indefensible nature of Mormonism.
Thanks Charity!
And crawling on the planet's face Some insects called the human race Lost in time And lost in space...and meaning
Sethbag wrote:I also don't believe the Urim and Thummim is in the Church's possession, but my reason is a bit different. I don't think there ever was a Urim and Thummim, at least not one that Joseph Smith or anyone else in the LDS church ever had.
According to D. Michael Quinn in Early Mormonism and the Magic World View, Revised & Enlarged Edition (Salt Lake City: Signature Books, 1998), the "Urim & Thummim" was merely the nickname given to Joseph Smith's white seer stone that he used during the production of the lost 116 pages. That nickname--first given by Wilford Woodruff, if memory serves--seems to have taken on a life of its own after the fact.
The church still has it.
That may be. I was referring specifically to the notion of Urim and Thummim as a breastplate, onto which is mounted a silver bow, to which two stones are attached. I don't believe that Joseph Smith every had possession of a breastplate with a silver bow with two stones attached. As you say, that part may have "evolved" over time.
Does anyone know the chronology of the belief in the breastplate with silver bow and two stones?
There's a portion in the JoD where Orson Pratt talks a bit about the U&T. I seem to remember him refering to it in a plural sense (showing that at least at that point, it wasn't just the seer stone, in my opinion). Gimme a bit, and I should be able to find it.
"Some people never go crazy. What truly horrible lives they must lead." ~Charles Bukowski
Doctor Steuss wrote:There's a portion in the JoD where Orson Pratt talks a bit about the U&T. I seem to remember him refering to it in a plural sense (showing that at least at that point, it wasn't just the seer stone, in my opinion). Gimme a bit, and I should be able to find it.
The whole dilly is JoD 18:156-61. Here’s a little piece wherein he refers to it in a plural sense:
With these plates that Joseph Smith, [Jr.] the Prophet, obtained through the instructions of the angel, he also obtained the Urim and Thummim, and by their aid he copied a few characters from the plates and translated them.
He never does give any description though (i.e. a bow, etc.) other than somewhat of a description of the Biblical U&T.
"Some people never go crazy. What truly horrible lives they must lead." ~Charles Bukowski
Found one that seems to be confusing it/them with the seer stone (i.e. “…place in a hat to exclude…”):
I am a little too old a man to be telling stories. There is no money in telling this story. I expect to stand before angels and archangels and be judged for how I have told it. When Joseph received the plates he also received the Urim and Thummim, which he would place in a hat to exclude all light, and with the plates by his side he translated the characters, which were cut into the plates with some sharp instrument, into English. And thus, letter by letter, word by word, sentence by sentence, the whole book was translated. It was not written from the Spaulding Romance. That story is false. Some say this romance was stolen by Sidney Rigdon while at Pittsburg. This is false. Sidney Rigdon knew nothing about it. He never saw or heard tell of the Book of Mormon until it was presented to him by P. P. Pratt and others. He was never at my father's house to see my brother until after the book was published. If he had wanted to see Joseph at that time and remained very long, he would have had to be in the field rolling logs or carrying brush.
William Smith, "The Old Soldier's Testimony," The Saint's Herald 31(1884):643-44.
"Some people never go crazy. What truly horrible lives they must lead." ~Charles Bukowski