Exmos

[_gramps]

(regarding Infymus's post)

Mormonism has more of a grip on you know then it even did. Bet you spend more time with it and on it then you ever did before. of course in a different way. Why don't you just pull down your really bad web site and move on?

He has the missionary zeal. How is this any different than TBMs handing out brain-dead sappy giveaway cards to all and sundry? Just as we went on missions because we felt we had something we needed to share with others, Infymus now believes he's helping people by steering them clear of Mormonism, or out of it, as the case may be. He sees the church as a net negative, and wants to do something about it. How is that so bad?

I just find it odd that he more likely then not spends more time with things LDS then he ever did. If he really so despises the Church why not move on? Why spend so much time with it? He seems more hung up then he probably ever was as an active LDS. I am not sure I said it was bad, but it seems odd.

No, here is the deal Jason... You have NO idea how much time I spent in Mormonism. Reading the Book of Mormon 17 times in a little under four years should give you an idea. One of the few who have read the JOD, HOC, all the works of WW, Joseph Smith, JSF, JAS, Joseph Smith, BY should give you an idea... I spent countless countless hours studying, reading, praying, paying, obeying.

It is nothing different now, it is just that my attention is now diverted.

Ignore Jason, he stands for nothing and is afraid to stand up for his own beliefs.

I applaud your efforts Infymus. I refer people to your site and Deconstructor's site all the time. A true asset in the battle against the evil LDS Empire.

Unlike Jasson who really does nothing for how he feels, you are doing something about your feelings, you are engaged.

Please keep your website up. For many, it can be the armor piercing bullet that finally lets the sunshine and fresh air into their cold and confined existence as a Mormon.

I don't have any idea why Jason thinks he can come on here and judge others.

Actually, I'm kind of tired of it.

Jason, you are a wimp, sitting in the middle, on the fence, afraid. (Trying to survive as a Lowell Bennion, Eugene England Mormon.) What a joke!

Does it feel good to be judged? Fence sitters, like you, really irk me to no end, but I usually let it go. You know, to each his own.

But, you think people shouldn't be angry, have missionary zeal for what they hold to be true, etc. No one here on this board needs or wants a nanny.

Be careful, you might turn into whyme.

Jason and whyme sitting in a tree.......(you know the rest!).

[_Tori]

(regarding Infymus's post)

Mormonism has more of a grip on you know then it even did. Bet you spend more time with it and on it then you ever did before. of course in a different way. Why don't you just pull down your really bad web site and move on?

He has the missionary zeal. How is this any different than TBMs handing out brain-dead sappy giveaway cards to all and sundry? Just as we went on missions because we felt we had something we needed to share with others, Infymus now believes he's helping people by steering them clear of Mormonism, or out of it, as the case may be. He sees the church as a net negative, and wants to do something about it. How is that so bad?

I just find it odd that he more likely then not spends more time with things LDS then he ever did. If he really so despises the Church why not move on? Why spend so much time with it? He seems more hung up then he probably ever was as an active LDS. I am not sure I said it was bad, but it seems odd.

(((((GROOAANN)))))

See? They'll never get it.

Ever.

[_guy sajer]

To those who have "left" the Church and have family still in:

Do you feel like your non-LDS-ness is always a monster lurking in the corner when you’re around family?

Absolutely. It is the huge white elephant sitting in the corner that everyone see but no one wants to talk about openly. (Though they will gossip about it in private.)

I have had to learn the "unwritten rules" with my TBM family and friends:

1. They are allowed to speak about their religious beliefs ad naseum.
2. I am not allowed to speak about my religous beliefs (or lack thereof).
3. They can anything and everything critical about other religions and beliefs.
4. I am not allowed to say anything critical about Mormonism.
5. They can send out sappy faith promoting stories about Mormonism.
6. I am not allowed to say anything promoting rationalism.
7. They can say all manner of silly things.
8. I am not allowed to observe that they may be, well, silly.
9. They can come to my house and ask to pray.
10. I am not allowed to ask that we not pray, not even in my own house.
11. Etc.

You get the idea.

[_guy sajer]

I find it interesting that when I met Infymus, he was a rather warm and friendly kind of guy, not the raving lunatic who hates all things Mormon. Of course we who were so committed to the church have strong feelings about it.

I'll second that. I found Infymus friendly, thoughtful, reasonable, and rational. I was, to be honest, surprised that his in-person demeanor was so different than his on-line demeanor.

It's often a mistake to infer much about someone from their on-line personna. The rules of etiquette and propriety are much different in the cyber world than in the real world.

[_guy sajer]

(regarding Infymus's post)

Mormonism has more of a grip on you know then it even did. Bet you spend more time with it and on it then you ever did before. of course in a different way. Why don't you just pull down your really bad web site and move on?

He has the missionary zeal. How is this any different than TBMs handing out brain-dead sappy giveaway cards to all and sundry? Just as we went on missions because we felt we had something we needed to share with others, Infymus now believes he's helping people by steering them clear of Mormonism, or out of it, as the case may be. He sees the church as a net negative, and wants to do something about it. How is that so bad?

I just find it odd that he more likely then not spends more time with things LDS then he ever did. If he really so despises the Church why not move on? Why spend so much time with it? He seems more hung up then he probably ever was as an active LDS. I am not sure I said it was bad, but it seems odd.

No, here is the deal Jason... You have NO idea how much time I spent in Mormonism. Reading the Book of Mormon 17 times in a little under four years should give you an idea. One of the few who have read the JOD, HOC, all the works of WW, Joseph Smith, JSF, JAS, Joseph Smith, BY should give you an idea... I spent countless countless hours studying, reading, praying, paying, obeying.

It is nothing different now, it is just that my attention is now diverted.

Ignore Jason, he stands for nothing and is afraid to stand up for his own beliefs.

I applaud your efforts Infymus. I refer people to your site and Deconstructor's site all the time. A true asset in the battle against the evil LDS Empire.

Unlike Jasson who really does nothing for how he feels, you are doing something about your feelings, you are engaged.

Please keep your website up. For many, it can be the armor piercing bullet that finally lets the sunshine and fresh air into their cold and confined existence as a Mormon.

I don't have any idea why Jason thinks he can come on here and judge others.

Actually, I'm kind of tired of it.

Jason, you are a wimp, sitting in the middle, on the fence, afraid. (Trying to survive as a Lowell Bennion, Eugene England Mormon.) What a joke!

Does it feel good to be judged? Fence sitters, like you, really irk me to no end, but I usually let it go. You know, to each his own.

But, you think people shouldn't be angry, have missionary zeal for what they hold to be true, etc. No one here on this board needs or wants a nanny.

Be careful, you might turn into whyme.

Jason and whyme sitting in a tree.......(you know the rest!).

With all due respect, I do not think that Jason deserves this. I can understand why he has chosen the path he has, and I respect him for it. (I tried this path, and it was a dismal failure. But if he can pull it off, more power to him.) I appreciate his contributions to this board.

[_truth dancer]

If there is one thing I have observed over the past many years of online Mormon discussions it is that most believers who discover the reality of the LDS church go through a very difficult time.

Each person is unique and has to manage her/his life in the best way possible... for some, who may not have any LDS attachments, they can walk away and never look back. For others, disbelief may mean divorce, losing one's family, isolation, losing one's job, being disowned, and a life of extreme pain and sorrow.

I believe the best we can do is support each other knowing that we are all doing the best we can to manage what is for many, a horrible situation.

We may not all follow the same path and I do not think there is "a" right way to cope with disbelief.

I so wish I could just walk away and put it all behind me. It will not happen in this life.


~dancer~

[_Infymus]

A couple of years ago, I posted a thread on the RFM board that was almost the same as this. My question: "What was your feeling the very instant you realized the Church was a fraud?"...or something like that.

This is a very valid point.

For me, it wasn't and it was due to the "chains and hooks" embedded in me by Mormonism. Fears created by Mormonism (and religion in general) are very pervasive. This is why out of all of the trinkets of Mormonism that are dropped by Ex-Mormons, it is the garments that are the last to go. I've seen Ex-mos who took nearly two years before they could finally move from taking them off here and there, to taking them off a little more, to finally FINALLY throwing them in the garbage. The psychological conditioning of Mormonism runs extremely deep.

Imagine a religion that can dictate to you what kind of underwear you have to wear. Imagine the control at that level.

Shrek said to his annoying ass, "Ogres are like onions". Ok, Shrek never existed (but hey, neither did Nephi or Moroni for that matter) but leaving Mormonism is like peeling back the layers of an onion. It takes time. It produces anger and pain and at the same time, an insatiable appetite for more.

When we were in Mormonism and we began questioning, we were told to stop, to pay, pray and obey. We were told we needed "milk" before "meat" (although we later realized that nobody ever had any meat, and meat was simply those who kept their mouths shut), we were told to put our thoughts and ideas on the shelf and stop trying to figure out. "Our answers would be answered later on in the next life. Joseph Smith gave us enough meat to last for centuries". The boys at FARMS provided us ten thousand word essays that before, we wouldn't bother to read because look, ten thousand words! They must have done their research, right? They are college professors working for the Lord's University, there is no reason to actually READ through the whole document and besides - the material they reference on the Anti side was forbidden. We were told stories of people who actually felt the spirit "rush out of the room" and some even heard maniacal evil laughter when they picked up Anti material.

Interesting. Now that we are outside of Mormonism, those same people are now saying that we are apostates. We are being sifted even as wheat by Satan. We no longer have the companionship of the Holy Ghost. We have abandoned God. We are no good, we should be avoided, chastised, prayed for, love bombed, name submitted to temples and more. We were told we just could not see the real truth. When we now read the FARMS material and Anti material and see the flaws in the FARMS work, we're told we should "Shut up and sing" (kudos to anyone who remembers that reference!)

Tell you the truth, I'd much rather be on this side of the coin. I believe those people in Mormonism who sweetly smiled (with daggers behind their backs) while we were Mormon, and then called us apostates when we left – are the most unhappy of them all. They are the Mormons who paint on their happy faces every day while behind the scenes are grappling with so many emotions they are popping prozac on a daily basis. They will never be free because they have no concept of what true freedom means.

I've met few Ex-Mos who said it was a "lightning" moment. For most of us, it was more of a "Oh my god, is that true?" as we peeled back the layers and saw the truth. It came in waves.

Here is something - when I was Mormon I was told that Jesus Christ would open the fountains of knowledge to me and I would never thirst. The ol' bait and switch of "Knock and it shall be opened" sales pitch. To tell you the truth, I was starving as a Mormon. My thirst was never quenched - and when I proclaimed I was hungry and thirsty, I got chastised for it. When I got out of Mormonism and began to unravel the real truths, my hunger and thirst began to be satiated. As Mormons, I could never be satiated because the truth was always kept from me. It was the truth that was fulfilling.

[_MishMagnet]

I find fence-sitters to be the, literally, millions of Mormons who profess belief with their mouths and go about their lives as non-Mormons. These are the people that won't put the effort into making a decision. They want to have their cake and eat it too. I've met more of these Mormons along my path than I have met my own kind.

Drinking, having sex, haven't darkened the doorway of a church building for years. Showing up to baptize their children and then disappearing again. But don't you dare say anything about Joseph Smith to them! The man was a saint and they know the truth!

I have nothing but sympathy for those active, non-believers.

[_Yoda]

With all due respect, I do not think that Jason deserves this. I can understand why he has chosen the path he has, and I respect him for it. (I tried this path, and it was a dismal failure. But if he can pull it off, more power to him.) I appreciate his contributions to this board.

I appreciate Jason's contributions to the board as well. And, since I'm in a similar situation, I understand where he is coming from.

Where was Jason judgmental? I didn't see that he was. I think he was asking an honest question, and Infymus and others went on the defensive. Jason simply asked why Infymus was so angry, and why there seemed to be the obsession with opposing the Church.

Frankly, this is a fair question, and one that could have been answered reasonably.

My take is that Infymus was angry because he dedicated so much time to the Church, and then found out it wasn't true. In his eyes, not only was the Church not true, but it was also a harmful element in his family's life. He honestly didn't want to see other people go through the same pain he, himself, endured, so he took it upon himself to publicize these inaccuracies that the Church had whitewashed.

[_Runtu]

With all due respect, I do not think that Jason deserves this. I can understand why he has chosen the path he has, and I respect him for it. (I tried this path, and it was a dismal failure. But if he can pull it off, more power to him.) I appreciate his contributions to this board.

I'll second that. What is important in life is to find the path that works for you. What some see as "wimpiness" may be an acceptable path for others. By the same token (no pun intended), it's not our business to tell someone else they shouldn't be angry and should "move on."