Gospel and Technology

[_Gadianton]

Theological debates are basically engineering problems that aren't very interesting from an end-user perspective. How much work grace can do, the mode of baptism, the proper steps of repentence, and which member of the Godhood to pray to are questions kind of like, is the tensile strength of this material strong enough to withstand the torque of the motor? If I turn on this new caching feature, will I overload buffers and be back to square one? If we take miniturization any farther for the new i.324 line, will we need to redesign the heat sinks?

The end user, or those implementing the technology really don't care, except to make it work. The end user, and the implementors, basically do what they have to do. No one willingly choses their new toy to not work. And if the stakes are high enough, if it's ones career for instance, then we just live with the hours on hold with tech support and often virtually blind trial and error. We might have debates with colleagues, but at the end of the day, there are so many trivial details that go into the finished product that such conversations are either total bs sessions or only semi-informed conjecturing. And this is all while we're tinkering with things we can put in a lab.

Unlike technology, religious beliefs can't really be experimented on. Oh yeah, ole Alma tells us otherwise, but no one can put it all in a lab and see if we get to heaven or not. Basically, you've got one shot, and almost nothing to go on.

So any religious sales reps can make a story about how it all comes together with their product, oh, the eternal security feature is a must, or, that blessing can't possibly work without being digitally signed by the correct priesthood authorizor. But you have no idea until you can test it. But you can't test it, because the only result that matters at all is if it gets you to heaven or eternal fire. And you don't know that until you die. all else is near blind conjecturing on imperfect information.

Even worse, real-world technology gives us exacting documentation in addition to the lab, and we still feel screwed. But religion gives us garbage like the Bible, which was written thousands of years ago, as a user manual to a product even more complicated than a rotory engine or a WAN accelerator.

Nobody wants to burn in a lake of fire for eons and eons. If avoiding that means avoiding tying knots on sundays, or limiting oneself to 40 steps on God's sixth (or is it seventh?) day, then we'll do it. Just like we'll reboot servers all day long and apply the next patch if that's what we have to do to keep our job. Offering a mere, "love they neighbor", or a sinners prayer matters nothing to us. That's just like, instead of all the detailed setup, we get off easy by having to set a dip switch to the proper setting. Only, we have to be sure that it's really the right setting. Why wouldn't we do it? We'd only not do it if there's no way to test it, like in the case of salvation, or there's no real reasoning to pick one document's dip switch recommendation over another's.

The best route is atheism. Because belief in God entails implementing a product that can't be tested and it's terribly documented. Only the sales engineers think it makes sense, and it's worth it for them because they get their commission whether it workes or not.

So my advice to you, is to forget about religion, or a personal relationship with Jesus, or whatever you want to call the exact same thing that every sales rep thinks is unique to their platform. Give a big middle finger to your sales reps, your priests, pastors, or prophets, and burn your user manuals, the Bible, Koran, Book of Mormon, Vedas, and just eat, drink, and be merry.

[_Sethbag]

Man you have a way with your words. This analogy is perfect. You're right. We're asked to implement a system which cannot be tested, and which is poorly documented. Anyone who has studied any discipline of engineering can tell you those are both absolute no-nos. And you're also right, every church offers their own user manual for the system, and they're all different, and everyone thinks there's is unique and true. It's perfect.

[_ludwigm]

Please define the word "gospel".
For example, when we (=hungarians) translate our word "evangélium" to english, it is gospel.
This is not transitive (in mathematic this means working both direction).
If fat negroes in purple robes are singing religious songs, it is not "evangélium" even it is "gospel" in english.
The Mormon definition of "gospel" is practically unknown. (For example "gospel of Abraham" ???)
Please define the word "gospel". (again)

[_truth dancer]

Hi Ludwigm,

GREAT question. I can see where it would be confusing.

I was always taught in the church that "gospel" was actually translated as "good news".... The "good news" of Christ.

But in the LDS sense it is used more like, "spiritual truth."

The restored Gospel of Jesus Christ means something like, "a restoration of all the spiritual truths taught by Jesus."

It is not a book or a particular teaching but a collection of ultimate truths.

Does that help a bit?


~dancer~

[_ludwigm]

...
But in the LDS sense it is used more like, "spiritual truth."
The restored Gospel of Jesus Christ means something like, "a restoration of all the spiritual truths taught by Jesus."
It is not a book or a particular teaching but a collection of ultimate truths.
... ~dancer~

OK, but what about Abraham?

[_Blixa]

...
But in the LDS sense it is used more like, "spiritual truth."
The restored Gospel of Jesus Christ means something like, "a restoration of all the spiritual truths taught by Jesus."
It is not a book or a particular teaching but a collection of ultimate truths.
... ~dancer~

OK, but what about Abraham?

He's in there somewhere, I think.

Sorry, that's the best I can do. I lost my user manual years ago...

(thanks Gad, thanks for taking me back to the years I spent as a technical editor at Sperry Univac. Thanks for the memories of editing the COBOL Programmer's Reference Guide [for which I had to learn COBOL], editing at least 20 Trouble-Shooting Guides [with fold out flow charts!] and numerous un- and re-packing guides, spec sheets and supplementary ephemera. Good times. I ended up with a bleeding ulcer and a tequila dependence.)

[_Gadianton]

Please define the word "gospel".
For example, when we (=hungarians) translate our word "evangélium" to english, it is gospel.
This is not transitive (in mathematic this means working both direction).
If fat negroes in purple robes are singing religious songs, it is not "evangélium" even it is "gospel" in english.
The Mormon definition of "gospel" is practically unknown. (For example "gospel of Abraham" ???)
Please define the word "gospel". (again)

kerygma.

[_Gadianton]

Thanks for the memories of editing the COBOL Programmer's Reference Guide [for which I had to learn COBOL], editing at least 20 Trouble-Shooting Guides [with fold out flow charts!] and numerous un- and re-packing guides, spec sheets and supplementary ephemera.

It doesn't matter what a mess COBOL might have been, you did it, because you had to eat. If there were any reason at all to believe that you might be in danger of being lit on fire for the rest of eternity, and to avoid it, it wouldn't matter if you had to learn COBOL all over again, you'd just do it. As would any rational or even semi-rational person. Any good news of a startup offering greater availability and simplification might be worth sending three reps out from the east bearing company credit cards for lunch and a load of their corporate paraphernalia, but it's really not great news because in a few hundred years, the work of weeding through and taking blind chances with scanty documents is no improvement over cutting, draining, and throwing entrails of your pet sheep round about your tent. If the consequence is hell fire, you're open to pretty much whatever.

[_barrelomonkeys]

Even worse, real-world technology gives us exacting documentation in addition to the lab, and we still feel screwed. But religion gives us garbage like the Bible, which was written thousands of years ago, as a user manual to a product even more complicated than a rotory engine or a WAN accelerator.

Gad, I'm sure I'm not the only one that wishes we could have longer signatures on this board.

Give a big middle finger to your sales reps, your priests, pastors, or prophets, and burn your user manuals, the Bible, Koran, Book of Mormon, Vedas, and just eat, drink, and be merry.

That one might fit.

[_ludwigm]

...
Please define the word "gospel". (again)

kerygma.

From the "www.answers.com":
ke·ryg·ma (kə-rĭg'mə) n. Christianity.
The proclamation of religious truths, especially as taught in the Gospels.

1. There is the word Gospel in the definition, so it is circular.
2. Other definitions generally use "Jesus Christ". Then, what has to do Abraham with the word "gospel".