Exmos

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_Blixa
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Post by _Blixa »

I'm late to this thread, but here goes:

Runtu's OP was two questions

1. How did you feel when you figured out that the church isn't what it claims to be?

2. How do you feel now towards the church?


1. I always thought "the church" was problematic; it never seemed to be what it claimed. So there was no element of shock, disappointment or even surprise for me. I guess there has been some surprise recently, however, because I've come to believe that the church is now worse than it used to be and thus i have surprisingly nostalgic feelings about how it once was! Hard to believe that things as once mundane as Relief Society Baazars seem like homely virtues compared to the Follow the Prophet mania of today. Worse yet, "I don't know if we teach that." I swear I'm still pissed about reneging on "as god is man will become"---I never believed it, but come on! That's the center of LDS belief! Something distinct and potentially beautiful and YOU DON"T KNOW IF IT WAS EVER TAUGHT? ITS JUST A COUPLET? Yes. That pisses me off.

2. Good question. I still think its a sexist and racist oppressive institution that the world would be better off without. But, I have changed my attitude toward members considerably. At one time I held all RM's beneath contempt. I've come to regret my former ignorance about the horribly stressful and injurious situations the church places its young men (and now more commonly, women) in. I was never rude to missionaries, I've always been pleasant but firm, but formerly I pretty much would have assumed that there was no basis for any kind of friendship there and so written them off as potential comrades. I also have a much more complete understanding of the situation of believing Mormons in general and again much greater sympathy. My historical studies in fact have revealed a veritable tradition of abuse of members by church leaders, something which makes my relation to the church and its history more complex.

Then Steuss asked about relations with family members who are still Mormon:

There are some distant branches of my Dad's family that are probably pretty Mormon, less so on my Mom's side. In my immediate family, my parents are pretty neutral unbelievers with my oldest brother and I much more critical unbeleivers. My youngest brother though is attending chuch again, now more than he did as a kid. When he got married I don't think his wife was very TBM, she has apparently become more so and thus, so has he. I don't really know the ins and outs of thier relationship to the church: how much of it is cultural and how much is grounded in devout and active belief. They raise their kids in the church, they go to all the meetings and I think hold callings, but, there is not the overwhelming judgementalism that I associate with "real" TBMs: my sister in law seems fine with me, I like her alot (I've just gotten to know her a bit recently because I was back in Utah), I like thier kids, they both seem to be great parents, I know for a fact they blew off sacrament meeting a few weeks ago to take a fall foliage drive in the canyons.

So, who knows? I like 'em and want to see more of 'em and get to know them better. Maybe conflicting religious ideas will become a sore spot, maybe not. My money's on the latter. I'd actually like to talk to both of them about Mormonism some time, but I would never bring it up til we knew each other better and only if I thought they were comfortable with such a discussion.

And finally:

I too found Infymus differnt in person than I had expected. In fact I'm really sorry I didn't get to spend time with him while I was in Utah. I should have pm'd him to tell him why I couldn't take him up on his generous offer of a place to escape my parents (too much personal stuff going down!), but I do plan on trying to get together with him when I get back to Utah---maybe in a month, maybe again in the summer, and when I move back to Utah (something I'm working on). I think we have alot to talk about and I'm really looking forward to knowing him better....
Last edited by Anonymous on Wed Nov 14, 2007 3:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
From the Ernest L. Wilkinson Diaries: "ELW dreams he's spattered w/ grease. Hundreds steal his greasy pants."
_Inconceivable
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Post by _Inconceivable »

Vindication

Someday I would like to be seen as who I am. By those that have ignorantly misjudged my character. It would settle me to recieve a heartfelt apology and an embrace.

But then again, to think that I wasted all these years believing that it mattered to me what they thought.
_Trinity
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Post by _Trinity »

MishMagnet wrote:I find fence-sitters to be the, literally, millions of Mormons who profess belief with their mouths and go about their lives as non-Mormons. These are the people that won't put the effort into making a decision. They want to have their cake and eat it too. I've met more of these Mormons along my path than I have met my own kind.

Drinking, having sex, haven't darkened the doorway of a church building for years. Showing up to baptize their children and then disappearing again. But don't you dare say anything about Joseph Smith to them! The man was a saint and they know the truth!

I have nothing but sympathy for those active, non-believers.


I agree, Mishmagnet, there are millions. So here is a question. What would it take to motivate those fence-sitters to hop down off the fence and openly live their life according to the dictates of their own conscience? There are many who won't leave because of cultural or social pull. Would it be a good strategy to quietly campaign against the evils of the culture?
"I think one of the great mysteries of the gospel is that anyone still believes it." Sethbag, MADB, Feb 22 2008
_Trinity
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Post by _Trinity »

Who Knows wrote:
Doctor Steuss wrote:To those who have "left" the Church and have family still in:

Do you feel like your non-LDS-ness is always a monster lurking in the corner when you’re around family?


Yes, but it's never talked about. Neither of my parents have even broached the subject since the day I told them 7 months ago. I live about 15 minutes from them, and see them all the time. But they've never said a word. Oh, well, actually, my dad invited me to priesthood session a few weeks ago, and I just said no thanks. It's like it never happened. Crazy.

Oh, and Trinity - I love the avatar. I'm a big trinity fan. I didn't know that's where your name came from (since your previous avatar wasn't matrix related).

Back on halloween, I was trick or treating in alpine with the kids, and we passed a couple dressed up as neo and trinity. I thought it was the coolest thing ever. I told my wife that's what we have to do next year.


Hi Who Knows,

Yup, the name and character comes from the Matrix. I love the movie. My oldest son and daughter went as Neo and Trinity for Halloween about five years ago, and they looked so neat. There's just something about leather. My youngest daughter this year went as Anna from Van Helsing and looked absolutely fabulous decked out in leather pants, boots and corset.
"I think one of the great mysteries of the gospel is that anyone still believes it." Sethbag, MADB, Feb 22 2008
_Doctor Steuss
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Post by _Doctor Steuss »

gramps wrote:[...]Fence sitters, like you, really irk me to no end, but I usually let it go. [...]

I'm sorry that we irk you... we're just still trying to find our path.
"Some people never go crazy. What truly horrible lives they must lead." ~Charles Bukowski
_barrelomonkeys
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Post by _barrelomonkeys »

liz3564 wrote:My take is that Infymus was angry because he dedicated so much time to the Church, and then found out it wasn't true. In his eyes, not only was the Church not true, but it was also a harmful element in his family's life. He honestly didn't want to see other people go through the same pain he, himself, endured, so he took it upon himself to publicize these inaccuracies that the Church had whitewashed.


That's the way I view Infymus as well.
_barrelomonkeys
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Post by _barrelomonkeys »

Doctor Steuss wrote:
gramps wrote:[...]Fence sitters, like you, really irk me to no end, but I usually let it go. [...]

I'm sorry that we irk you... we're just still trying to find our path.


I'm sure I irk the hell out of all of you. That's why I stay. :)
_Some Schmo
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Post by _Some Schmo »

barrelomonkeys wrote: It appears to me that Infymus is angry. Is that not a valid emotion?

People are in various stages of the loss of their faith on this board. Some seem to linger on one emotion for longer than others, they each deal with their loss of faith in their own manner.

What do people mean by 'move on'? I see this term flung about often (I personally bristle at it) and don't quite understand. If someone is still reeling from whatever impact their loss of faith had upon them personally why would anyone else assume they could just up and forget about it? It seems so silly really as if you must discount the various stages that a person deals with when their entire world view radically shifts.


This was a great post.

This thread reminds me of the time on FAIR when someone had started a thread explaining why getting over Mormonism was so hard, and you had the folks churping in with the standard "just move on" crap, and I said that was akin to telling a rape victim she should just get over it immediately. Don't take time to heal. Forget about the fact that you were entirely psychologically injured... just deal.

I guess it's only everyone else's problems that are easy to solve, just not our own.

Yeah... pretty dumb.
God belief is for people who don't want to live life on the universe's terms.
_BishopRic
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Post by _BishopRic »

Some Schmo wrote:
barrelomonkeys wrote: It appears to me that Infymus is angry. Is that not a valid emotion?

People are in various stages of the loss of their faith on this board. Some seem to linger on one emotion for longer than others, they each deal with their loss of faith in their own manner.

What do people mean by 'move on'? I see this term flung about often (I personally bristle at it) and don't quite understand. If someone is still reeling from whatever impact their loss of faith had upon them personally why would anyone else assume they could just up and forget about it? It seems so silly really as if you must discount the various stages that a person deals with when their entire world view radically shifts.


This was a great post.

This thread reminds me of the time on FAIR when someone had started a thread explaining why getting over Mormonism was so hard, and you had the folks churping in with the standard "just move on" crap, and I said that was akin to telling a rape victim she should just get over it immediately. Don't take time to heal. Forget about the fact that you were entirely psychologically injured... just deal.

I guess it's only everyone else's problems that are easy to solve, just not our own.

Yeah... pretty dumb.


Exactly! I see a pattern among TBMs here that shows (to me) that there is a degree of denial on their part. The "just move on" diatribe, and the "nothing was covered up" claim -- referring that we all should have known Joe had 33 wives, that the Book of Abraham wasn't translated the way we thought, and now, that there were already loads of people here when the Book of Mormon folks came over. It was taught that way all along!

Interesting pattern...keeps them safe, I guess!
_John Larsen
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Post by _John Larsen »

I would really suspect the psychological health of someone who could give the time and mental devotion it takes to be an active Mormon and then just walk away from it all. It seems that you would have to have some kind of psychotic disassociation disorder to even be able to do it.

John
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