What do you find odd about the Book of Mormon?

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_charity
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Post by _charity »

Sethbag wrote:Charity, this simply didn't happen. And Noah didn't build an ark that held 2 of some kinds, and 7 of other kinds of animals, along with food and water, and his family, for a year. And Moses didn't part the red sea. Who knows whether David really killed a tall guy named Goliath.

You are the poster child for "magical thinking".

Ah, so now we've gone from the Limited Geography Theory to the Limited Shipbuilding Theory, where Nephi actually bought supplies from shipbuilders in the area, hired workers, and merely directed the building of a ship, using experienced shipwrights and a blueprint provided by God. I'm still confused as to why Nephi had to actually mine his own ore, and smelt it, and produce his own iron tools, if there was a local shipbuilding facility with workers and all. Maybe that was "sweat equity" he had to provide as part of his payment for all the cordage, sails, timbers, casks or jars, provisions, spars, laborers, etc. Building a ship was a very capital-intensive venture. It was extremely expensive. If Nephi actually just contracted out most of the ship, as you imply he might have done, it would have cost them an arm and a leg to do so. I guess they hauled around chests of gold (you know, the gold were holding back when they were supposed to be trying to buy the brass plates off Laban) in the wilderness just waiting for the opportunity to spend all that money.

Of course, if you actually read chapters 17 and 18 of 1 Nephi, it very clearly says that Nephi and his brethren built the ship. Or is this just like the "others", and you're going to find some verse that's just ambiguous enough to sneak a whole shipyard full of naval supplies and laborers into the story?


I am not advocating any "unlimited ship building" theory. But just because others aren't mentioned, doesn't mean they weren't there. And just because Nephi doesn't give the bill from the nearest Oman Home Depot doesn't mean that purchases couldn't have been made. And with God anything is possible.



You know, seth, you can't prove it didn't happen any more than I can prove it did happen. So who is a wishful thinker? Only I have a better position than you do. Your position is shrinking. Mine is expanding. Every new discovery adds to my position, and there is nothing that can add to yours, as we push you further and further into a corner.
_moksha
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Post by _moksha »

beastie wrote:The characters are cartoonish. All good, all bad. Even the few attempts at complexity seem flat. I think that's part of the reason BH Roberts said it sounds like it was written by an immature mind.


Can't wait for you review of Aesops Fables. Action and adventure in wartime adventures holds a place in our imaginations. Of course nearly two hundred years later, we have heard a lot of these types of stories and they have lost some appeal do to the graphic realities of war we see in the movies.
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_sunstoned
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Post by _sunstoned »

Something that I have always found odd is that in many of these massive battles, it comes down to just two standing, both of them being the kings or generals. This seems very unrealistic to me. In most warfare that I am aware of, the side that is loosing will usually retreat to avoid unnecessary losses. Kind of a live to fight another day.

i also find the the Jaradite crossing unbelievable.
_Abinadi's Fire
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Post by _Abinadi's Fire »

Here's one:

Alma 14:8 And they brought their wives and children together, and whosoever believed or had been taught to believe in the word of God they caused that they should be cast into the fire; and they also brought forth their records which contained the holy scriptures, and cast them into the fire also, that they might be burned and destroyed by fire.

9 And it came to pass that they took Alma and Amulek, and carried them forth to the place of martyrdom, that they might witness the destruction of those who were consumed by fire.

10 And when Amulek saw the pains of the women and children who were consuming in the fire, he also was pained; and he said unto Alma: How can we witness this awful scene? Therefore let us stretch forth our hands, and exercise the power of God which is in us, and save them from the flames.

11 But Alma said unto him: The Spirit constraineth me that I must not stretch forth mine hand; for behold the Lord receiveth them up unto himself, in glory; and he doth suffer that they may do this thing, or that the people may do this thing unto them, according to the hardness of their hearts, that the judgments which he shall exercise upon them in his wrath may be just; and the blood of the innocent shall stand as a witness against them, yea, and cry mightily against them at the last day.

12 Now Amulek said unto Alma: Behold, perhaps they will burn us also.


The story tells us that the people were allowed to be burned to serve the purpose of executing judgement upon those who burned them.

The characters could stop it, but they don't, because judgement apparently is more important than saving someone from burning.

That's odd.
_ludwigm
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Post by _ludwigm »

Mercury wrote:
charity wrote:Just one word answers your concerns, seth. NOAH.
That argument is just sad. ...
Santa Claus exists! - said the Easter Bunny.
Easter Bunny exists! - said Bigfoot.
Bigfoot exists! - said Santa Claus.
All of above had proved - said the apologist.

For shipbuilding, see "http://home.teleport.com/~packham/ships.htm" (Good!)

beastie wrote:The characters are cartoonish.
As they are in other fairy-tales.
- Whenever a poet or preacher, chief or wizard spouts gibberish, the human race spends centuries deciphering the message. - Umberto Eco
- To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin. - Cardinal Bellarmine at the trial of Galilei
_beastie
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Post by _beastie »

Can't wait for you review of Aesops Fables. Action and adventure in wartime adventures holds a place in our imaginations. Of course nearly two hundred years later, we have heard a lot of these types of stories and they have lost some appeal do to the graphic realities of war we see in the movies.


Cartoonish characters are only odd in a text that purports to be an actual first-person history.
We hate to seem like we don’t trust every nut with a story, but there’s evidence we can point to, and dance while shouting taunting phrases.

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_the road to hana
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Post by _the road to hana »

Among other things. . .Book of Mormon passages that tend to resonate most with readers are essentially direct lifts from the KJV.
Last edited by Guest on Fri Nov 16, 2007 1:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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_karl61
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Post by _karl61 »

ludwigm wrote:
Mercury wrote:
charity wrote:Just one word answers your concerns, seth. NOAH.
That argument is just sad. ...
Santa Claus exists! - said the Easter Bunny.
Easter Bunny exists! - said Bigfoot.
Bigfoot exists! - said Santa Claus.
All of above had proved - said the apologist.

For shipbuilding, see "http://home.teleport.com/~packham/ships.htm" (Good!)

beastie wrote:The characters are cartoonish.
As they are in other fairy-tales.


Great point!
I want to fly!
_guy sajer
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Post by _guy sajer »

charity wrote:[You know, seth, you can't prove it didn't happen any more than I can prove it did happen. So who is a wishful thinker? Only I have a better position than you do. Your position is shrinking. Mine is expanding. Every new discovery adds to my position, and there is nothing that can add to yours, as we push you further and further into a corner.


I nominate this for the stupidest thing ever said on this discussion board.
God . . . "who mouths morals to other people and has none himself; who frowns upon crimes, yet commits them all; who created man without invitation, . . . and finally, with altogether divine obtuseness, invites this poor, abused slave to worship him ..."
_Maxrep
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Post by _Maxrep »

Abinadi's Fire wrote:Here's one:

and he doth suffer that they may do this thing, or that the people may do this thing unto them




Even when describing the burning of people, Joseph can't resist his practice of constantly inflating the story with "up wording". We all understood the first part,"and he doth suffer that they may do this thing". The story becomes no more clear when he adds the second part, "or that the people may do this thing unto them ".

The tedious thing is, the whole Book of Mormon trudges on awkwardly like this with this overlapping babble just to fill space.
I don't expect to see same-sex marriage in Utah within my lifetime. - Scott Lloyd, Oct 23 2013
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