Marie "dances" while her son goes into rehab

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_LifeOnaPlate
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Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 4:50 pm

Post by _LifeOnaPlate »

thestyleguy wrote:
LifeOnaPlate wrote:
thestyleguy wrote:
LifeOnaPlate wrote:
thestyleguy wrote:beause I'm very obessive compulsive and paranoid (thanks to the church)


Love the scape goating here.


If you believe in extremes - then it's easy to believe in other extremes - like failure leads to failure or good to good. You believe premarital sex is next murder you are an extreme wacko.


You believe it's somehow OK to put down other people based on their struggles in life, and even enjoy it. Being called an "extreme wacko" by someone like you reads like a compliment.

Nice dodge, by the way.


So you admit being LDS is a mental struggle; if not and if you think I am putting people down for taking drugs you need a reading course - just the basics to start. read my responses or read what YOU read into them.


I understand completely. You're using someone else's misery as a club with which you beat on the LDS Church. Telling me I "need a reading course" doesn't further your point in any way, either.

Being LDS can be a mental struggle. Just like school. An occupation. Having friends, or a family. Let's do away with anything that creates any kind of mental struggle, shall we?
One moment in annihilation's waste,
one moment, of the well of life to taste-
The stars are setting and the caravan
starts for the dawn of nothing; Oh, make haste!

-Omar Khayaam

*Be on the lookout for the forthcoming album from Jiminy Finn and the Moneydiggers.*
_Yoda

Post by _Yoda »

LifeOnAPlate wrote:I understand completely. You're using someone else's misery as a club with which you beat on the LDS Church. Telling me I "need a reading course" doesn't further your point in any way, either.

Being LDS can be a mental struggle. Just like school. An occupation. Having friends, or a family. Let's do away with anything that creates any kind of mental struggle, shall we?


How is Style Guy using Marie's son's situation as a club? I didn't see that in his posts. Does he list being LDS as a possible contributing factor? Yes...and, you, yourself, admitted, that it very well may be.

There are a lot of factors that might be contributing...One can only really speculate. I'm sure his mother's, and extended family's celebrity play a major role in this as well.
_karl61
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Posts: 2983
Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2007 6:29 pm

Post by _karl61 »

LifeOnaPlate wrote:
thestyleguy wrote:
LifeOnaPlate wrote:
thestyleguy wrote:
LifeOnaPlate wrote:
thestyleguy wrote:beause I'm very obessive compulsive and paranoid (thanks to the church)


Love the scape goating here.


If you believe in extremes - then it's easy to believe in other extremes - like failure leads to failure or good to good. You believe premarital sex is next murder you are an extreme wacko.


You believe it's somehow OK to put down other people based on their struggles in life, and even enjoy it. Being called an "extreme wacko" by someone like you reads like a compliment.

Nice dodge, by the way.


So you admit being LDS is a mental struggle; if not and if you think I am putting people down for taking drugs you need a reading course - just the basics to start. read my responses or read what YOU read into them.


I understand completely. You're using someone else's misery as a club with which you beat on the LDS Church. Telling me I "need a reading course" doesn't further your point in any way, either.

Being LDS can be a mental struggle. Just like school. An occupation. Having friends, or a family. Let's do away with anything that creates any kind of mental struggle, shall we?


Life naturally gives us struggles or times that challenge us. Life does not ask us to suspend critical thought. When you do that you enter into another world. When you believe that GBH communicates with God and all the acts of the Church were dictated by God and that Joseph Smith was directed in all things by God then that struggle is self/family created. But now that new facts and information are being found about the church and if you still suspend critical thought then the problem is yours and you are responsible.
I want to fly!
_harmony
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Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 1:35 am

Post by _harmony »

This thread causes me to react several different ways.

1. I raised 8 kids. They weren't the most popular kids on the block, never had much spending money, although they usually had access to a car. They weren't invited to parties or on trips or that sort of thing. That used to bother me. I was stupid to be bothered by such a frivilous shallow thing. We hosted some of the most well attended, funnest parties in the neighborhood, yet my kids were never invited back. Still, none of them ever did drugs, drank alcohol, or spent a night in jail, so I guess missing the parties of those who did wasn't such a bad thing.

2. What the hell was that doctor thinking, to prescribe Percoset for cramps? Someone should jerk that idiot's license!

3. Some women cannot bear to grow old. I look at Marie and see that kind of woman. I am not impressed that she can kick that high at 48 years old. I know what she does in order to be able to do that, and I wonder at her priorities. I wonder if a big part of the problem for these children is that their mothers refuse to admit to themselves that they're getting older. They secretly despised their own mothers, those mostly plump frumpy women, and vowed early in life to never allow that to happen to them, only to find that their children really need women focused solely on them in their lives, even if they're plump and frumpy because of that focus. Cosmetic surgery is at an all time high, as women have their breasts enhanced, their lips puffed up, their bodies sculpted, their faces Botoxed, all with the idea of remaining 24 forever. When women aren't comfortable in their own skin, being the age they are, how can children be mothered? When grandmothers focus on looking like teenagers, we've got a problem. Children, especially teenagers, don't need competition from their mothers.

Look nice, yes, but don't color the gray, don't fight the inevitable plumpness, don't fight the occasional wrinkle, don't seek to be something that is long gone. Be content in the now. I think that is a major problem with our women, both in and out of the church. We are not content in the now. We want the prime of our lives to last far longer than it's supposed to. I think it's a cultural thing, and something that Mormon women have embraced far too often and far too much.
_LifeOnaPlate
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Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 4:50 pm

Post by _LifeOnaPlate »

thestyleguy wrote:Life naturally gives us struggles or times that challenge us. Life does not ask us to suspend critical thought. When you do that you enter into another world.


On that we are agreed.

When you believe that GBH communicates with God


Yes...

and all the acts of the Church were dictated by God


Something I certainly never suggested...

and that Joseph Smith was directed in all things by God


Something else I certainly never suggested...

then that struggle is self/family created.


I personally think there are many problems that are self or family or culture created. I try to take personal responsibility for myself, and feel that blaming others doesn't solve anything, and ultimately doesn't mean much.

But now that new facts and information are being found about the church and if you still suspend critical thought then the problem is yours and you are responsible.


I personally think the "problem," either way, is always our own.
Last edited by Guest on Fri Nov 16, 2007 5:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
One moment in annihilation's waste,
one moment, of the well of life to taste-
The stars are setting and the caravan
starts for the dawn of nothing; Oh, make haste!

-Omar Khayaam

*Be on the lookout for the forthcoming album from Jiminy Finn and the Moneydiggers.*
_barrelomonkeys
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Posts: 3004
Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2007 7:00 pm

Post by _barrelomonkeys »

harmony wrote:3. Some women cannot bear to grow old. I look at Marie and see that kind of woman. I am not impressed that she can kick that high at 48 years old. I know what she does in order to be able to do that, and I wonder at her priorities. I wonder if a big part of the problem for these children is that their mothers refuse to admit to themselves that they're getting older. They secretly despised their own mothers, those mostly plump frumpy women, and vowed early in life to never allow that to happen to them, only to find that their children really need women focused solely on them in their lives, even if they're plump and frumpy because of that focus. Cosmetic surgery is at an all time high, as women have their breasts enhanced, their lips puffed up, their bodies sculpted, their faces Botoxed, all with the idea of remaining 24 forever. When women aren't comfortable in their own skin, being the age they are, how can children be mothered? When grandmothers focus on looking like teenagers, we've got a problem. Children, especially teenagers, don't need competition from their mothers.

Look nice, yes, but don't color the gray, don't fight the inevitable plumpness, don't fight the occasional wrinkle, don't seek to be something that is long gone. Be content in the now. I think that is a major problem with our women, both in and out of the church. We are not content in the now. We want the prime of our lives to last far longer than it's supposed to. I think it's a cultural thing, and something that Mormon women have embraced far too often and far too much.


Hi Harmony, I have no desire to remain ageless. I LOVE my 30's. They rock! I prefer them to my 20's in many ways and imagine my 40's will hold even more delight for me. :)

Yet, I still try to not be frumpy. I just don't desire to frump up. I want to be whatever age I am and still take care of myself. I work out like a fiend, I love that my ass rocks, and I'm just incredibly shallow in that regard. I just see it as a way to embrace whatever stage I'm in within my life and make the most of it. I don't desire to turn back the clock, but still want that clock sparkly and clean at whatever time it is. :)

Not done the cosmetic surgery route but I understand why some women do, I suppose. I don't think the way a woman looks really has all that much to do with their mothering skills. I see frumpy, overweight women that are horrid mothers all the time. I don't really see a correlation.

There's another reason I try to stay attractive and that is to show my daughters that they too are beautiful. Odd, I know?! I grew up never seeing another human being that shared my blood line (I'm adopted) and I always had this hope that my mother was some beautiful, wonderful lady and I looked just like her! My daughters look at me and I look at them and see us reflected in each other. I want to be that Mom that I always hoped existed somewhere for my daughters. So, while others may not get that (actually no one would except anyone reading this) I would hope that we all realize that none of us know the inner secrets, struggles, and desires that go into each individual choice to look attractive or not to. :)
_BishopRic
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Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2007 8:59 pm

Post by _BishopRic »

LifeOnaPlate wrote:
I personally think the "problem," either way, is always our own.


I'm gonna take a "middle-o-the-road" position here. As I said earlier, I completely agree that the ultimate attitude to have is that we are all responsible for everything in our lives. I believe, from many angles, it is absolutely true.

However, it is a journey for many to get to that place. Religion, and not only Mormonism, often teaches a principle that inhibits this knowledge. Flip Wilson's "the Devil made me do it!" phrase projects an attitude that allows many to become victims...chronically blaming outside influences for their lot in life. Belief in Deity may contribute to this as well, as "He" may be said to have a "plan" for us, and it is our job to follow that plan.

Where I can relate to the common exmo position is that this "paradigm" changes for us. We are raised with a very black and white story of what we are to do, and not do, to prepare us for a "better place" in the hereafter. Much of religion is about being tested and living a way that will get us to that goal. When that "story" changes for us, it takes some time to rebuild a healthy way of living without the predestined path. Sometimes that involves some unhealthy behaviors...and for some of us, we have to experience things to learn the consequences. Others are a little luckier and can learn from others.

Along this journey, a plethora of emotions are common. Confusion leads to anger, sadness, and depression commonly. Substance abuse is an easy way to drown the pain of this stage; and we can only hope they will get past it alive!

If one hasn't experienced this paradigm shift, it is difficult to understand, I'm sure. I think we can all have compassion for those that have more trauma in life than the norm, and just give the love and support you would want if it happened to you.
_LifeOnaPlate
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Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 4:50 pm

Post by _LifeOnaPlate »

Fair enough, barrel. This discussion can easily fall into the categories of good, better, and best.
One moment in annihilation's waste,
one moment, of the well of life to taste-
The stars are setting and the caravan
starts for the dawn of nothing; Oh, make haste!

-Omar Khayaam

*Be on the lookout for the forthcoming album from Jiminy Finn and the Moneydiggers.*
_LifeOnaPlate
_Emeritus
Posts: 2799
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 4:50 pm

Post by _LifeOnaPlate »

BishopRic wrote:
LifeOnaPlate wrote:
I personally think the "problem," either way, is always our own.


I'm gonna take a "middle-o-the-road" position here. As I said earlier, I completely agree that the ultimate attitude to have is that we are all responsible for everything in our lives. I believe, from many angles, it is absolutely true.

However, it is a journey for many to get to that place. Religion, and not only Mormonism, often teaches a principle that inhibits this knowledge. Flip Wilson's "the Devil made me do it!" phrase projects an attitude that allows many to become victims...chronically blaming outside influences for their lot in life. Belief in Deity may contribute to this as well, as "He" may be said to have a "plan" for us, and it is our job to follow that plan.

Where I can relate to the common exmo position is that this "paradigm" changes for us. We are raised with a very black and white story of what we are to do, and not do, to prepare us for a "better place" in the hereafter. Much of religion is about being tested and living a way that will get us to that goal. When that "story" changes for us, it takes some time to rebuild a healthy way of living without the predestined path. Sometimes that involves some unhealthy behaviors...and for some of us, we have to experience things to learn the consequences. Others are a little luckier and can learn from others.

Along this journey, a plethora of emotions are common. Confusion leads to anger, sadness, and depression commonly. Substance abuse is an easy way to drown the pain of this stage; and we can only hope they will get past it alive!

If one hasn't experienced this paradigm shift, it is difficult to understand, I'm sure. I think we can all have compassion for those that have more trauma in life than the norm, and just give the love and support you would want if it happened to you.


Often, those who have experienced this "paradigm shift" turn back around and act as though those who haven't are blind dupes or controlled idiots. Mormonism has taught me to find truth wherever I can find it, and I mean that, it's not a nice little idea or sound bite. I see yours as a more moderate position but it is not a middle of the road approach; it fails to adequately recognize that the LDS Church can engender more thoughtful, introspective, honest people who aren't "overcome" by unrealistic expectations.
One moment in annihilation's waste,
one moment, of the well of life to taste-
The stars are setting and the caravan
starts for the dawn of nothing; Oh, make haste!

-Omar Khayaam

*Be on the lookout for the forthcoming album from Jiminy Finn and the Moneydiggers.*
_BishopRic
_Emeritus
Posts: 657
Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2007 8:59 pm

Post by _BishopRic »

LifeOnaPlate wrote:
BishopRic wrote:
LifeOnaPlate wrote:
I personally think the "problem," either way, is always our own.


I'm gonna take a "middle-o-the-road" position here. As I said earlier, I completely agree that the ultimate attitude to have is that we are all responsible for everything in our lives. I believe, from many angles, it is absolutely true.

However, it is a journey for many to get to that place. Religion, and not only Mormonism, often teaches a principle that inhibits this knowledge. Flip Wilson's "the Devil made me do it!" phrase projects an attitude that allows many to become victims...chronically blaming outside influences for their lot in life. Belief in Deity may contribute to this as well, as "He" may be said to have a "plan" for us, and it is our job to follow that plan.

Where I can relate to the common exmo position is that this "paradigm" changes for us. We are raised with a very black and white story of what we are to do, and not do, to prepare us for a "better place" in the hereafter. Much of religion is about being tested and living a way that will get us to that goal. When that "story" changes for us, it takes some time to rebuild a healthy way of living without the predestined path. Sometimes that involves some unhealthy behaviors...and for some of us, we have to experience things to learn the consequences. Others are a little luckier and can learn from others.

Along this journey, a plethora of emotions are common. Confusion leads to anger, sadness, and depression commonly. Substance abuse is an easy way to drown the pain of this stage; and we can only hope they will get past it alive!

If one hasn't experienced this paradigm shift, it is difficult to understand, I'm sure. I think we can all have compassion for those that have more trauma in life than the norm, and just give the love and support you would want if it happened to you.


Often, those who have experienced this "paradigm shift" turn back around and act as though those who haven't are blind dupes or controlled idiots.


I'll admit I am guilty of this stereotyping at times. It has been my experience most of the time, and I'm sure that experience has jaded me a bit. No doubt I need to get past the labels more than I have.

Mormonism has taught me to find truth wherever I can find it, and I mean that, it's not a nice little idea or sound bite.


I am glad to hear this, and I respect you for it.

I see yours as a more moderate position but it is not a middle of the road approach; it fails to adequately recognize that the LDS Church can engender more thoughtful, introspective, honest people who aren't "overcome" by unrealistic expectations


You may be right. It hasn't been my experience for the most part, but I concede we may be seeing a positive change in that direction.
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