DCP Admits to "LDS Academic Embarrassment"

[_charity]

Oh, it is? According to whom? You? I would think that those who put in the effort to obtain a Ph.D. do so for reasons beyond mere employment. Relatively speaking, university professors do not make as much money as they would in the private sector. Further, I think you overlook the 'love' factor---I.e., people go into these fields because they genuinely like/love what they are studying, and believe that they can make a contribution to the field, and to humanity's body of knowledge writ-large.

Not to many people have the means to allow themselves to go to school and obtain degrees for fun. We all have to have jobs to support ourselves. Who do you know that can invest $100,000 in pursuit of a degree that would be of no value in looking for a job, post school?

Sure, people love their fields of study. But they have to eat, too. Professors make upwards of $80,000 a year, even in a lower tier school like Portland State. That is not chump change. Beats MacDonald's by a miile.

Ideally, people w/ Mormon Studies degrees would be able to hold positions in theology departments across the country, if not the world. Of course, this would entail LDS scholars branching out into the larger world, rather than hiding behind the aegis of FARMS/FAIR. Their embarrassment is holding them back.

You have got to be kidding! With the predjucice against Mormons? My daughter couldn't even get a job as a psychiatric aide in a Baptist hospital. She had more years of experience in the job than any other applicant, but the personnel director explained that most of the staff in the hospital "wouldn't be comfortable" working with a Mormon. How did he know she was LDS? Her degree was from BYU.

So you think our well educated Book of Mormon scholars are going to take their degrees in Book of Mormon and be hired to teach theology anywhere except in Utah? Would you be interested in some ocean view property near Phoenix, AZ?

[_Ray A]

Sure, Ray. It's my bias, and not the fact that you actually threatened to harm LDS missionaries.

Here we go again. Would you like to see my police record? My traffic offense database?

You said that the Internet sparks emotions that one would not normally encounter in real life, but you used this to defend RFMers!

However, in my case, you see the threat as real! And you keep repeating it in spite of my remorse for the statement.

I no longer run a blog on angry-ex-Mormons, and that's largely because of my experience on PostMo.

You sound like a broken, vindictive record - because I won't agree with you.

[_Ray A]

I'm afraid I'm going to have to agree with Beastie, Ray. Your threats of violence and your apoplectic profanity make you far, far worse than all but 1% of the people on RfM, and that hardly matters, since one can find an equal number of disgustingly evil-minded and hateful TBMs in the "Letters from Mormons" section on that same site.

You don't have to be "afraid" of agreeing with beastie. If you didn't, I'd choke on my pavlova.

[_beastie]

Here we go again. Would you like to see my police record? My traffic offense database?

You said that the Internet sparks emotions that one would not normally encounter in real life, but you used this to defend RFMers!

You use the mocking and statements made about the moral character of apologists as omens of real life violence, not actual threats, which you issued. If people were making actual threats of violence, of course I would agree the risk of violence was real.

However, in my case, you see the threat as real! And you keep repeating it in spite of my remorse for the statement.

Once again, you made an actual threat of physical violence. If you can't see the difference between that and what you highlight on RFM, there's not much I can do to explain it.

I no longer run a blog on angry-ex-Mormons, and that's largely because of my experience on PostMo.

You sound like a broken, vindictive record - because I won't agree with you.

Because I won't agree with you? What complete nonsense. There are many people who don't agree with me, and vice versa. I don't accuse any of them of being worse than the most rabid RFMers. Once again, if you really have no idea why I am singling you out, there's not much I can do at this point to help you understand.

[_Mister Scratch]

Oh, it is? According to whom? You? I would think that those who put in the effort to obtain a Ph.D. do so for reasons beyond mere employment. Relatively speaking, university professors do not make as much money as they would in the private sector. Further, I think you overlook the 'love' factor---I.e., people go into these fields because they genuinely like/love what they are studying, and believe that they can make a contribution to the field, and to humanity's body of knowledge writ-large.

Not to many people have the means to allow themselves to go to school and obtain degrees for fun. We all have to have jobs to support ourselves. Who do you know that can invest $100,000 in pursuit of a degree that would be of no value in looking for a job, post school?

Sure, people love their fields of study. But they have to eat, too. Professors make upwards of $80,000 a year, even in a lower tier school like Portland State. That is not chump change. Beats MacDonald's by a miile.

You are missing the point entirely. Yes, of course a higher degree comes along with certain expectations. But for you to single this out as the only, or even the most important, thing that's stopping BYU from instituting a Ph.D. program in Mormon Studies, seems seriously misguided.

Ideally, people w/ Mormon Studies degrees would be able to hold positions in theology departments across the country, if not the world. Of course, this would entail LDS scholars branching out into the larger world, rather than hiding behind the aegis of FARMS/FAIR. Their embarrassment is holding them back.

You have got to be kidding! With the predjucice against Mormons?

Wait a sec... Now you are claiming that LDS scholars won't present their arguments to the outside world because of prejudice? Prejudice against what, pray tell? Moreover, I'm not sure how this squares with DCP & et. al.'s claim that secular scholars are totally oblivious to LDS theories and arguments.

My daughter couldn't even get a job as a psychiatric aide in a Baptist hospital. She had more years of experience in the job than any other applicant, but the personnel director explained that most of the staff in the hospital "wouldn't be comfortable" working with a Mormon. How did he know she was LDS? Her degree was from BYU.

So you think our well educated Book of Mormon scholars are going to take their degrees in Book of Mormon and be hired to teach theology anywhere except in Utah? Would you be interested in some ocean view property near Phoenix, AZ?

The bottom line is this, Charity: if LDS scholars are not going to attempt to share their theories with secular scholars and the rest of the academic world, then LDS scholars have no business characterizing their work as "scholarly" at all.

[_Ray A]

Because I won't agree with you? What complete nonsense. There are many people who don't agree with me, and vice versa. I don't accuse any of them of being worse than the most rabid RFMers. Once again, if you really have no idea why I am singling you out, there's not much I can do at this point to help you understand.

No, I didn't say you won't agree with me, I said I won't agree with you.

Thanks, but I don't need your "help".

[_beastie]

I said:

Because I won't agree with you? What complete nonsense. There are many people who don't agree with me, and vice versa. I don't accuse any of them of being worse than the most rabid RFMers. Once again, if you really have no idea why I am singling you out, there's not much I can do at this point to help you understand.

Ray's reply:
dodge

[_Mister Scratch]

I said:

Because I won't agree with you? What complete nonsense. There are many people who don't agree with me, and vice versa. I don't accuse any of them of being worse than the most rabid RFMers. Once again, if you really have no idea why I am singling you out, there's not much I can do at this point to help you understand.

Ray's reply:
dodge

Yeah, you're right, Beastie. He does have a pretty nasty tendency to wander off-topic, or dodge the point. On another thread (I believe it was "Ray A--Total Nut"), I tried to get him to explain why my anonymity made me so bad, but he never did. Ultimately, he just bailed out, or "fled the scene," as Kevin Graham would say.

[_Ray A]

I said:

Because I won't agree with you? What complete nonsense. There are many people who don't agree with me, and vice versa. I don't accuse any of them of being worse than the most rabid RFMers. Once again, if you really have no idea why I am singling you out, there's not much I can do at this point to help you understand.

Ray's reply:

Again, thanks, but I don't need your "help" (in fact, you would be the last person I would call on if I thought I needed "help"). Your negative obsession with MADB is no different. When you disagree with something, or someone, you become obsessed with that person or thing, just like you did on PostMo, when I was trying to understand them better, and just like you lashed out at Bob. Remember your words, "THIS is anger". Fortunately, others called you on it.

[_Ray A]

Yeah, you're right, Beastie. He does have a pretty nasty tendency to wander off-topic, or dodge the point. On another thread (I believe it was "Ray A--Total Nut"), I tried to get him to explain why my anonymity made me so bad, but he never did. Ultimately, he just bailed out, or "fled the scene," as Kevin Graham would say.

I'm still here, and I've explained ad nauseam why you're a hypocrite for indulging in character assassination under the cover of anonymity.