Elder Holland: "Jesus Christ shaved off his beard."

[_Gadianton]

Hey LoP,

You said something about casting pearls before swine. You know, when I hear people in the church say this, it means one of two things. The first is the usual. The second is, "Please don't implicate the rest of us, we don't believe you either and people are going to think we also believe nutty things like this".

So here's my question to you. Do you believe, gun to the head, that Nehor saw Jesus? If you had to place your bet, either yea, or nay, which would it be?

If you do not believe Nehor saw God, then you are one of the swine along with the rest of us and your request does not reflect your desire for him to keep things sacred, but betrays your secret embarrassment over something you think is stupid.

[_LifeOnaPlate]

I believe the term, "still small voice " came from BY. He was depressed at not receiving enlightenment in the form of personal visitations from Christ. Finally, he had a dream where Joseph spoke to him about how feeling the still small voice was indeed good enough to be called revelation.

The title, "Special witnesses of Jesus Christ", is just that - a title. It does not refer to an actual transpired event in which one has received the Second Comforter. It is tossed out there for members to speculate on. If ever asked about the subject, the "Special Witness" predictably engages in the coy dance of humility; "I could never kiss and tell". The member is then allowed to assume, purposefully without clarification, that all "Special Witnesses" have indeed seen Christ.

Is that about it in a nutshell?

And I thought you knew the Bible! I believe the earliest instance is from the Old Testament.

And he said, Go forth, and stand upon the mount before the LORD. And, behold, the LORD passed by, and a great and strong wind rent the mountains, and brake in pieces the rocks before the LORD; but the LORD was not in the wind: and after the wind an earthquake; but the LORD was not in the earthquake:

And after the earthquake a fire; but the LORD was not in the fire: and after the fire a still small voice. (1 Kings 19:11-12).

[Guest]

Hey LoP,

Hey, Gad!

So here's my question to you. Do you believe, gun to the head, that Nehor saw Jesus? If you had to place your bet, either yea, or nay, which would it be?

If you do not believe Nehor saw God, then you are one of the swine along with the rest of us and your request does not reflect your desire for him to keep things sacred, but betrays your secret embarrassment over something you think is stupid.

I have no idea whether or not Nehor has seen Christ.

[_Maxrep]

I believe the term, "still small voice " came from BY. He was depressed at not receiving enlightenment in the form of personal visitations from Christ. Finally, he had a dream where Joseph spoke to him about how feeling the still small voice was indeed good enough to be called revelation.

The title, "Special witnesses of Jesus Christ", is just that - a title. It does not refer to an actual transpired event in which one has received the Second Comforter. It is tossed out there for members to speculate on. If ever asked about the subject, the "Special Witness" predictably engages in the coy dance of humility; "I could never kiss and tell". The member is then allowed to assume, purposefully without clarification, that all "Special Witnesses" have indeed seen Christ.

Is that about it in a nutshell?

And I thought you knew the Bible! I believe the earliest instance is from the Old Testament.

And he said, Go forth, and stand upon the mount before the LORD. And, behold, the LORD passed by, and a great and strong wind rent the mountains, and brake in pieces the rocks before the LORD; but the LORD was not in the wind: and after the wind an earthquake; but the LORD was not in the earthquake:

And after the earthquake a fire; but the LORD was not in the fire: and after the fire a still small voice. (1 Kings 19:11-12).

Sorry, the mileage that phrase enjoys within the church specifically comes from BY's usage of the term, completely independent of its presence in the Old Testament.

[_LifeOnaPlate]

I believe the term, "still small voice " came from BY. He was depressed at not receiving enlightenment in the form of personal visitations from Christ. Finally, he had a dream where Joseph spoke to him about how feeling the still small voice was indeed good enough to be called revelation.

The title, "Special witnesses of Jesus Christ", is just that - a title. It does not refer to an actual transpired event in which one has received the Second Comforter. It is tossed out there for members to speculate on. If ever asked about the subject, the "Special Witness" predictably engages in the coy dance of humility; "I could never kiss and tell". The member is then allowed to assume, purposefully without clarification, that all "Special Witnesses" have indeed seen Christ.

Is that about it in a nutshell?

And I thought you knew the Bible! I believe the earliest instance is from the Old Testament.

And he said, Go forth, and stand upon the mount before the LORD. And, behold, the LORD passed by, and a great and strong wind rent the mountains, and brake in pieces the rocks before the LORD; but the LORD was not in the wind: and after the wind an earthquake; but the LORD was not in the earthquake:

And after the earthquake a fire; but the LORD was not in the fire: and after the fire a still small voice. (1 Kings 19:11-12).

Sorry, the mileage that phrase enjoys within the church specifically comes from BY's usage of the term, completely independent of its presence in the Old Testament.

Hmmm... I disagree.

[_harmony]

Ummm.....when did he say that everyone would get revelation only by the still, small voice?

If he did, I better pack my bags. I know I can only get revelation for myself and for the keys and offices I hold. I didn't say I was getting more. I was only describing that what I get is not solely through the still, small voice. Some was a loud booming voice, visions, dreams, pure intelligence flowing into mind, etc. You better call my Bishop quick. I'm about to give a lesson on revelation and how it can be conveyed and I'm going to talk about all those in addition to the still, small voice. DUN DUN DUN......

None of that is a visitation from Christ, in the flesh, with skin and hair and a beard. None of it. And that's what Holland was talking about to those missionaries.

[_LifeOnaPlate]

And that's what Holland was talking about to those missionaries.

Actually, no one has shown that this instance of Elder Holland's address actually occurred.

[_harmony]

And that's what Holland was talking about to those missionaries.

Actually, no one has shown that this instance of Elder Holland's address actually occurred.

Spoken like a true apologist, LoaP. Would you care to address the visitation as reported in the opening post, or are you going to quibble about sources? If the report is true, and Holland did indeed say what he is reported to have said, did he lie?

[_LifeOnaPlate]

Spoken like a true apologist, LoaP. Would you care to address the visitation as reported in the opening post, or are you going to quibble about sources? If the report is true, and Holland did indeed say what he is reported to have said, did he lie?

You can call me a "true apologist" or even a "true jackass," I really don't care. I advocate against "faith promoting rumors," many of which stem from "stories" like the one in the OP. "My friend's brother in the MTC had a companion whose older brother was in the MTC when President Packer told a group of missionaries they were generals in the war in heaven!"

Boo to that. Without an actual source with context I cannot provide anything other than meaningless speculation on what might have happened.

[_guy sajer]

I had no idea until now what has caused all of you guys to go apostate. Now I know. You don't have a sense of humor. You can't tell when someone is joking.

I'm with Charity here. I'm quite sure Jeffrey was joking. He knows he has never seen Jesus, so there is no way he could've been serious.

Holland wasn't joking. Holland was deliberately misleading a bunch of young men into believing something that isn't true. In other words, he lied.

For what it's worth, I do not believe this ever happened. I think that some of you are putting to much credence into a 5th hand, or something like that, tall tale.