Mister Scratch wrote: Why, if you don't mind my asking, were you "meeting" with Apostles? I am curious about what sort of context would be necessary for Apostles to discuss such sacred experiences.
It wasn't a personal one on one meeting but they weren't recorded or broadcasted either. They were leadership meetings, Mission conferences, local appearances for specialized groups (in my cases youth and YSA).
Could you please elaborate a bit more? I'm confused about how a personal visitation from Christ in the flesh would come up as a topic in these sorts of meetings.... I mean, how did the Brethren discuss this?
So here's my question to you. Do you believe, gun to the head, that Nehor saw Jesus? If you had to place your bet, either yea, or nay, which would it be?
If you do not believe Nehor saw God, then you are one of the swine along with the rest of us and your request does not reflect your desire for him to keep things sacred, but betrays your secret embarrassment over something you think is stupid.
I have no idea whether or not Nehor has seen Christ.
Somehow I knew you were going to say that. The question was, gun to the head, what would you bet? I think it's obvious you would bet "no", and that your recommendations about casting pearls was due to you being one of us, the swine, in this case.
Lou Midgley 08/20/2020: "...meat wad," and "cockroach" are pithy descriptions of human beings used by gemli? They were not fashioned by Professor Peterson.
LM 11/23/2018: one can explain away the soul of human beings...as...a Meat Unit, to use Professor Peterson's clever derogatory description of gemli's ideology.
Mister Scratch wrote: Why, if you don't mind my asking, were you "meeting" with Apostles? I am curious about what sort of context would be necessary for Apostles to discuss such sacred experiences.
It wasn't a personal one on one meeting but they weren't recorded or broadcasted either. They were leadership meetings, Mission conferences, local appearances for specialized groups (in my cases youth and YSA).
Nehor, if you're really that gullible, I have a real estate deal I've saving for you.
Is it the Alaska bridge to nowhere? I've been wanting to get in on that for ages.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics "I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
Maxrep wrote:I believe the term, "still small voice " came from BY. He was depressed at not receiving enlightenment in the form of personal visitations from Christ. Finally, he had a dream where Joseph spoke to him about how feeling the still small voice was indeed good enough to be called revelation.
The title, "Special witnesses of Jesus Christ", is just that - a title. It does not refer to an actual transpired event in which one has received the Second Comforter. It is tossed out there for members to speculate on. If ever asked about the subject, the "Special Witness" predictably engages in the coy dance of humility; "I could never kiss and tell". The member is then allowed to assume, purposefully without clarification, that all "Special Witnesses" have indeed seen Christ.
Is that about it in a nutshell?
And I thought you knew the Bible! I believe the earliest instance is from the Old Testament.
And he said, Go forth, and stand upon the mount before the LORD. And, behold, the LORD passed by, and a great and strong wind rent the mountains, and brake in pieces the rocks before the LORD; but the LORD was not in the wind: and after the wind an earthquake; but the LORD was not in the earthquake:
And after the earthquake a fire; but the LORD was not in the fire: and after the fire a still small voice. (1 Kings 19:11-12).
Sorry, the mileage that phrase enjoys within the church specifically comes from BY's usage of the term, completely independent of its presence in the Old Testament.
Hmmm... I disagree.
Be more agreable... it saves time. :)
"But while he lay sick in the Mormons' Winter Quarters in early 1847, Young had a vision of his deceased former mentor Joseph Smith telling him to listen to the "still small voice" inside."
I don't expect to see same-sex marriage in Utah within my lifetime. - Scott Lloyd, Oct 23 2013
Mister Scratch wrote: Why, if you don't mind my asking, were you "meeting" with Apostles? I am curious about what sort of context would be necessary for Apostles to discuss such sacred experiences.
It wasn't a personal one on one meeting but they weren't recorded or broadcasted either. They were leadership meetings, Mission conferences, local appearances for specialized groups (in my cases youth and YSA).
Could you please elaborate a bit more? I'm confused about how a personal visitation from Christ in the flesh would come up as a topic in these sorts of meetings.... I mean, how did the Brethren discuss this?
Sure, in one Mission Conference the Apostle was teaching about Sanctification and how to use the Holy Ghost to reach higher levels of purity. He described that your light would grow brighter and brighter until the perfect day. He defined the perfect day as the day when Christ will come visit you as promised. Then he described the feelings he had when that day came. Our eyes were glued to say the least. Another was discussing the Atonement and mentioned that we all had the opportunity to learn at the "literal feet" of the Savior as he had if we would sanctify ourselves. Some people missed that reference but many in the audience understood it.
That is all I can remember off-hand. There were two more. One was similar to the first one above and the other one escapes me. I can't know what it was unless I dig through lots of notes.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics "I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
LifeOnaPlate wrote:I have no idea whether or not Nehor has seen Christ.
Do you believe that Elder Holland---or any of the Brethren---have seen Christ in the flesh? Y/N?
Although not addressed to me I will say yes, several of them have and have told me so in meetings I've attended.
And people wonder why I don't trust them.
Hello? What meetings? Where's the transcript? Where's the evidence that Christ has visited? Where's the emphasis on the Top 15 living a Christ-like life? Where's the repentence, since they obviously don't? Where's the proof, the deeds, the wisdom? What do they have to show that they were worthy of a personal visitation? N-O-T-H-I-N-G!
It didn't happen. :-(
Can't you just take his word for it instead of getting hung up on "quibbles?" I believe you wanted me to do so regarding the OP.
One moment in annihilation's waste, one moment, of the well of life to taste- The stars are setting and the caravan starts for the dawn of nothing; Oh, make haste! -Omar Khayaam
Mister Scratch wrote: Why, if you don't mind my asking, were you "meeting" with Apostles? I am curious about what sort of context would be necessary for Apostles to discuss such sacred experiences.
It wasn't a personal one on one meeting but they weren't recorded or broadcasted either. They were leadership meetings, Mission conferences, local appearances for specialized groups (in my cases youth and YSA).
Could you please elaborate a bit more? I'm confused about how a personal visitation from Christ in the flesh would come up as a topic in these sorts of meetings.... I mean, how did the Brethren discuss this?
Sure, in one Mission Conference the Apostle was teaching about Sanctification and how to use the Holy Ghost to reach higher levels of purity. He described that your light would grow brighter and brighter until the perfect day. He defined the perfect day as the day when Christ will come visit you as promised. Then he described the feelings he had when that day came. Our eyes were glued to say the least. Another was discussing the Atonement and mentioned that we all had the opportunity to learn at the "literal feet" of the Savior as he had if we would sanctify ourselves. Some people missed that reference but many in the audience understood it.
Wow! So, in essence, you are saying that Christ offers something akin to grad school seminars for the Apostles? This is utterly fascinating. If you don't mind, who were the Apostles in question?
That is all I can remember off-hand. There were two more. One was similar to the first one above and the other one escapes me. I can't know what it was unless I dig through lots of notes.
Well, if you can recall, I'd certainly be interested in hearing.
Gadianton wrote:Somehow I knew you were going to say that. The question was, gun to the head, what would you bet? I think it's obvious you would bet "no", and that your recommendations about casting pearls was due to you being one of us, the swine, in this case.
If you are wondering whether I ever count myself in with the swine the answer to that is "yes."
Additionally, I don't view the "pearls before swine" comment as an insult.
Scratch: I'm not sure. I've not heard any of them personally testify of such (any of the current living apostles, anyway.) As for some who have gone before, I believe some had encounters with the resurrected Christ.
One moment in annihilation's waste, one moment, of the well of life to taste- The stars are setting and the caravan starts for the dawn of nothing; Oh, make haste! -Omar Khayaam
Gadianton wrote:Somehow I knew you were going to say that. The question was, gun to the head, what would you bet? I think it's obvious you would bet "no", and that your recommendations about casting pearls was due to you being one of us, the swine, in this case.
If you are wondering whether I ever count myself in with the swine the answer to that is "yes."
Additionally, I don't view the "pearls before swine" comment as an insult.
Scratch: I'm not sure. I've not heard any of them personally testify of such (any of the current living apostles, anyway.) As for some who have gone before, I believe some had encounters with the resurrected Christ.
You're not the only one who feels this way. In the second of Quinn's Mormon Hierarchy books, he presents a very convincing case that spiritual visitations have dwindled away over time. In other words, whereas Joseph Smith and other of the early Brethren experienced real epiphanies and actual visions, the Brethren of today tend more to experience only a "warm feeling," as Pres. Oaks described to Steve Benson. This all represents the gradual secularization of the Church.
Last edited by Physics Guy on Mon Nov 19, 2007 10:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Mister Scratch wrote: Why, if you don't mind my asking, were you "meeting" with Apostles? I am curious about what sort of context would be necessary for Apostles to discuss such sacred experiences.
It wasn't a personal one on one meeting but they weren't recorded or broadcasted either. They were leadership meetings, Mission conferences, local appearances for specialized groups (in my cases youth and YSA).
Could you please elaborate a bit more? I'm confused about how a personal visitation from Christ in the flesh would come up as a topic in these sorts of meetings.... I mean, how did the Brethren discuss this?
Sure, in one Mission Conference the Apostle was teaching about Sanctification and how to use the Holy Ghost to reach higher levels of purity. He described that your light would grow brighter and brighter until the perfect day. He defined the perfect day as the day when Christ will come visit you as promised. Then he described the feelings he had when that day came. Our eyes were glued to say the least. Another was discussing the Atonement and mentioned that we all had the opportunity to learn at the "literal feet" of the Savior as he had if we would sanctify ourselves. Some people missed that reference but many in the audience understood it.
Wow! So, in essence, you are saying that Christ offers something akin to grad school seminars for the Apostles? This is utterly fascinating. If you don't mind, who were the Apostles in question?
That is all I can remember off-hand. There were two more. One was similar to the first one above and the other one escapes me. I can't know what it was unless I dig through lots of notes.
Well, if you can recall, I'd certainly be interested in hearing.
I really don't feel comfortable sharing names for fear of what will happen on this board and with only my short-hand quotations to back them up it's kinda dodgy to make declarations of who said what.
Grad school seminars is a pretty loose way of describing it. Also, it is not limited to the Apostles.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics "I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo