Mister Scratch wrote:Over on the aptly named MADboard, an interesting thread was begun by the poster named "Connoly":
Connoly wrote:Some of my coworkers were talking about a letter that was apparently read in at least some Utah County wards yesterday regarding certain improper Sacrament Meeting practices that had crept into some areas and that the letter instructed the leaders to discontinue those practices.
Was a letter like that read in your ward? Either we didn't get one or the bishop elected not to read the letter or at least not read it at that time, or this was a case of a past letter being re-itterated in some places because If I recall correctly some of these things have been discouraged in the past.
From what I understand some of the depricated practices are:
* Organized dismissal from Sacrament meeting (eg row by row or by age, etc). * Ward break-fasts on Fast Sunday * Allowing singing [individual] in lieu of bearing a testimony during fast and testimony meeting * Music only sacrament meetings where members pick their favorite hymn and the congregation sings for the remainder of the time (this is something that my ward has done twice this year).
Was there a new letter?
I think it's very interesting to read between the lines here. If this letter is/was legitimate, then we have to assume that some "rogue" bishops have really been treating their congregations in some disquieting ways. I.e., is it really necessary to dismiss adult members row by row? Further, it is intriguing that the Brethren would demand that Sacrament Meeting include material in addition to music. I mean, theoretically, shouldn't hymns contain (at minimum) all of the same basic messages about the Gospel as the typical hastily prepared talk?
I think what the letter suggests, above all, is a kind of back-and-forth, behind the scenes kind of battle, where the Brethren and other Church leaders are trying to determine just how much authoritarian control they will be able to get away with. In either case, I thought this was intriguing. Perhaps further intriguing were the TBMs' reaction to the posting. Most of them seemed to generally approve, and feel that things such as "sung testimonies" ought to be prohibited.
I have not seen such a letter. I doubt it exists. If I do see it I will let you know.
Trinity wrote:I remember when our ward used to do this, dismiss people row by row! It was when we first went to the block schedule and would go directly from Sacrament to Sunday School.
The spanish and polynesian wards in Salt Lake City always used to have a breakfast or a potluck on Sunday. They had, by far, the best attendance rates in our stake.
you are damn lucky they didn't release by race! or they are!
No letter read in my ward on Sunday. But then, I'm not in Utah, so maybe it didn't apply to us. We are such rogues, we still have the picture of Christ hanging in our chapel. Shame on us!
charity wrote:It wasn't read in my ward. Maybe because we didn't need it. Maybe some other wards did.
This is a good example, though, of how the apostacies happen. One little thing at a time. One little step off the path, and then another, then another.
First they start to part their hair on the left. Soon they hang out with their friends after Sacrament meeting, slapping backs and guffawing in the foyer. Next they are peppering their speech with words like "keen" and "swell". Pretty soon they are staying after for "Priesthood Duties".
Oh, we should have seen it coming. Yes indeed. All the tell tell signs were there. The bread crumbs on the collar. The hard water stains on the sleeves. Yes, we should have seen it coming and nipped it in the bud. But, Ohhh Noooooo! If you do that they will brand you an alarmist and tell you that your seeing things. Well listen bub, the trouble is here now and those of use still able to stay on the straight and narrow better do something about it soon....
charity wrote:It wasn't read in my ward. Maybe because we didn't need it. Maybe some other wards did.
This is a good example, though, of how the apostacies happen. One little thing at a time. One little step off the path, and then another, then another.
This only has any meaning at all if you conflate the particular structure of an LDS meeting with the Gospel. The LDS church isn't the Gospel, or so you ought to claim. The LDS "Plan of Sacrament Meeting" is not the "Plan of Salvation". Whether one sings their testimony, or just tells their travelog and cries, is not Gospel Truth. Whether some families get together to have a potluck dinner after church on Fast Sunday or not is not the same as the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
That you feel that straying from the particular form that LDS meetings hold to is tantamount to beginning apostasy, tells me a lot about what's important to you. What's important to you, as far as one's faithfulness to God, is apparently how strictly one conforms with LDS traditions and culture.
Mormonism ceased being a compelling topic for me when I finally came to terms with its transformation from a personality cult into a combination of a real estate company, a SuperPac, and Westboro Baptist Church. - Kishkumen
Oh, we should have seen it coming. Yes indeed. All the tell tell signs were there. The bread crumbs on the collar. The hard water stains on the sleeves. Yes, we should have seen it coming and nipped it in the bud. But, Ohhh Noooooo! If you do that they will brand you an alarmist and tell you that your seeing things. Well listen bub, the trouble is here now and those of use still able to stay on the straight and narrow better do something about it soon.... (Bold added by RM)
Will you elaborate on the bolded? Not sure if you're jesting, or serious?? Warm regards, Roger
This only has any meaning at all if you conflate the particular structure of an LDS meeting with the Gospel. The LDS church isn't the Gospel, or so you ought to claim. The LDS "Plan of Sacrament Meeting" is not the "Plan of Salvation". Whether one sings their testimony, or just tells their travelog and cries, is not Gospel Truth. Whether some families get together to have a potluck dinner after church on Fast Sunday or not is not the same as the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
That you feel that straying from the particular form that LDS meetings hold to is tantamount to beginning apostasy, tells me a lot about what's important to you. What's important to you, as far as one's faithfulness to God, is apparently how strictly one conforms with LDS traditions and culture.
The brethren could reverse themselves tomorrow and declare that wards MUST dismiss by rows, and charity would suddenly declare that to do otherwise is a sign of impending apostasy.
What matters to Charity, and likely the vast majority of LDS, isn't the particular details. It is obedience to the brethren.
They don't like admitting that on MAD, of course.
We hate to seem like we don’t trust every nut with a story, but there’s evidence we can point to, and dance while shouting taunting phrases.