is religion headed for the junk yard?

[_Sethbag]

I'm not convinced that education will wipe out religion. Those of us in the generation that saw the transition from the analog world to the digital world still think of ourselves as being brought up scientifically and with a new appreciation for science and the development of technology. But today's generation of kids are simply growing up with that technology. They become users, but not developers. Any young-earth creationist Bible thumber can use cellphone and text people, and know their way around a computer, but they don't have to know a damn thing about how it works, or the scientific principles that led to the development of its primary subsystems, etc.

I worry that our society is going to plateau in terms of advancement in education. We will go from a society of researchers into a society of users, and there's nothing particular about being a user of technology that molds one's mind in the direction of improved rational thought and an appreciation for science and the scientific method.

So what we'll see is an evolution of religion, and an accomodation with technology, but amongst pure users of technology, and not the developers of it or the scientists, their religion will evolve to be in complete harmony with their education. We see examples of it on these very boards. Religion can be very accommodating when it needs to be. Just look at LDS apologists. Enough things have come up to completely disrupt the traditional LDS belief system, and yet the apologists are able to roll with the punches and simply evolve the belief system around the obstacles and the pitfalls and continue their mind-warping belief system right along, unimpeded.

[_BishopRic]

I'm not convinced that education will wipe out religion. Those of us in the generation that saw the transition from the analog world to the digital world still think of ourselves as being brought up scientifically and with a new appreciation for science and the development of technology. But today's generation of kids are simply growing up with that technology. They become users, but not developers. Any young-earth creationist Bible thumber can use cellphone and text people, and know their way around a computer, but they don't have to know a damn thing about how it works, or the scientific principles that led to the development of its primary subsystems, etc.

I worry that our society is going to plateau in terms of advancement in education. We will go from a society of researchers into a society of users, and there's nothing particular about being a user of technology that molds one's mind in the direction of improved rational thought and an appreciation for science and the scientific method.

So what we'll see is an evolution of religion, and an accomodation with technology, but amongst pure users of technology, and not the developers of it or the scientists, their religion will evolve to be in complete harmony with their education. We see examples of it on these very boards. Religion can be very accommodating when it needs to be. Just look at LDS apologists. Enough things have come up to completely disrupt the traditional LDS belief system, and yet the apologists are able to roll with the punches and simply evolve the belief system around the obstacles and the pitfalls and continue their mind-warping belief system right along, unimpeded.

Yes but...I don't know if it's unimpeded. The "Exmo" groups are growing like wildfire. I know of one person in Utah County that recently started a Sunday picnic for exmos, and it now gets 200 people on Sundays. The recent newspaper articles show Utah is at an alltime low of LDS percentage (about 60%).

I'm quite certain some of the doctrinal changes/apologetic justifications are impacting the church. I talk to random people everyday in my practice, and many have left the church over these issues -- and are not involved on any of these forums. No, I don't have concrete statistical evidence, but it's my sense we are seeing a transition.

[_Trevor]

Religion always survives. I'd never bet against it.

I'm with Runtu.

[_The Dude]

science keeps going forward leaps and bounds while religion seems to be on the defense - at least now:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071120/ap_on_sc/stem_cells

of couse this could be called God's work.

Asbestosman started a thread on this back in August, when it had only been reported in mouse cells. See the off-topic forum, "Ethics of Stem Cells". I just bumped it up to the top, since it had fallen down to page 4 or something.

http://mormondiscussions.com/discuss/vi ... 3850#93850

Regarding the death of religion, I agree with Trevor that it will never go away. Even in europe, which some would call a post-christian society, they have strong spiritual beliefs that aren't based on any science whatsoever. Just ask the average european to grow a genetically modified tomato in their garden and see what reasons they have for opposing this technology. in my opinion, it's a vestige of religion, a visceral urge that will never go away.

(Gramps: any comments on european trends?)

[_asbestosman]

Asbestosman started a thread on this back in August, when it had only been reported in mouse cells. See the off-topic forum, "Ethics of Stem Cells". I just bumped it up to the top, since it had fallen down to page 4 or something.

http://mormondiscussions.com/discuss/vi ... 3850#93850

I just added a question to it regarding the creation of eggs or sperm from stem cells.

[_mocnarf]

The reason IMHO that religion will never go away is because it can not answer a few questions:

1) Why am I here? Is their a purpose to life?
2) Do I continue to exist after my body dies? (Does man have a soul?)
3) Why does the universe exist?

[_Gazelam]

The reason IMHO that religion will never go away is because it can not answer a few questions:

1) Why am I here? Is their a purpose to life?
2) Do I continue to exist after my body dies? (Does man have a soul?)
3) Why does the universe exist?

The Terrible Questions

[_ludwigm]

... The "Exmo" groups are growing like wildfire. ...

http://home.teleport.com/~packham/morexmos.htm

[_gramps]

science keeps going forward leaps and bounds while religion seems to be on the defense - at least now:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071120/ap_on_sc/stem_cells

of couse this could be called God's work.

Asbestosman started a thread on this back in August, when it had only been reported in mouse cells. See the off-topic forum, "Ethics of Stem Cells". I just bumped it up to the top, since it had fallen down to page 4 or something.

http://mormondiscussions.com/discuss/vi ... 3850#93850

Regarding the death of religion, I agree with Trevor that it will never go away. Even in europe, which some would call a post-christian society, they have strong spiritual beliefs that aren't based on any science whatsoever. Just ask the average european to grow a genetically modified tomato in their garden and see what reasons they have for opposing this technology. in my opinion, it's a vestige of religion, a visceral urge that will never go away.

(Gramps: any comments on european trends?)

Well, european trends: it is a mixed bag over here.

Where I teach, I usually ask my students at some point whether or not they are Christians. Just for my own interest.

In former east Germany, where I live, there are not many Christians. Most of my students are decidedly atheist, as are their parents who grew up under Communist rule. The Christians that are here tend to be part of the evangelical-type mindset. There is growth in that area.

If you move east into Poland and beyond, it is actually a little scary. It is a fact that our gay brothers and sisters are leaving Poland for London, Glasgow, and Dublin, where they can be safe from discrimination.

Moving south, into Bavaria, the Catholics are in control and it is very conservative there and a lot of people claim to be Christians and a lot of people still go to church, even the younger people. The children are baptised while still babies and often go through the confirmation process at an older age (12-14). They are quite proud to be Catholic. I'm not sure how much this is do to heritage or to belief?

I know my ex went to Catholic school (high school) which is considered to be a very good education in Bavaria (and expensive). She was taught, for example, that there is no conflict between being Christian and believing in evolution. They are taught both side by side. (As an aside here, we have had many discussions about this in particular. When I ask her about the Atonement and how she squares it with evolution and Adam and Eve, she really has no clue of the issues. It has become a kind of "don't ask, don't tell policy" between the two of us. She gets really upset when I probe into her beliefs too deeply. Go figure!).

Anyway, Christianity is far from dead in Bavaria, to be sure. And they (the Bavarian Christians) have a lot of power throughout Germany. It is still very conservative here in so many ways.

However, there are some bright spots on the horizon. Even here in Germany, gays can marry. They don't call it marriage per se, but they can enter into a legal union of sorts.

I haven't met any Scandinavians of the younger generation that are believers. The Dutch (at least the ones I hang out with ( :) ), don't believe, for the most part.

But, eastern Europe: that is a strange phenomenon. The countries supporting America seem to have large Christian political movements and church growth (the fundamentalist evangelical type, in particular). And I should say that the Jehovah Witnesses don't seem to do to bad over here either. My impression is that they are far more successful than the Mormons. Mormonism seems to be struggling for air here from what I have witnessed.

Hey Ludwig, can you tell us more about what is happening in eastern Europe?

Just a few observations off the top of my head. Maybe I will add some more in later.

[_ludwigm]

... Mormonism seems to be struggling for air here from what I have witnessed.
Hey Ludwig, can you tell us more about what is happening in eastern Europe?

In worktime, I have a handful to do. I come back afternoon.