An Uncomfortable Conversation re Doubts

[_mms]

I just had a conversation with a good friend who was asking about another good friend's apparent lack of testimony and lingering doubts about the Church. This friend had no idea that I am struggling with the same issues. ("For those who do not know me" (just kidding--little testimony meeting speak, there) . . . but seriously, I am an active (Church every week unless out of town, etc.) member in my thirties, High Priest, returned missionary, etc.).

I have difficulty not being honest about my own struggle, so I told this person that I was having some similar struggles. He appeared somewhat shocked and we began an uncomfortable discussion about what gave rise to my doubts and struggle. I mentioned some of the things causing me difficulty, and he told me that none of it matters as long as the Spirit tells me its true (I understand his position and told him so). He blamed me for our other friend's issues, stating "Now I see where he is getting it from" (not actually true that he is getting it from me, but that is not important).

We ended the conversation, but I realized that this person, who has been a friend for the last thirteen years or so, and for whom I care much, is no longer "comfortable" with me; sort of views me as having a disease--he mentioned that I have driven away the Spirit, etc. He will likely now warn some of our other mutual friends about me. I only confided because of our friendship and because he inquired re my thoughts on someone doubting. I feel a little bit sick inside. I wonder why we cannot openly discuss these things without fear of losing friends and family; without being viewed as diseased or a tool of Satan. Yuck. Kind of ruined my day. Sometimes I think my desire to present myself in an authentic way is a drawback, and that if I were better at faking it, life would be easier.

(Note--I know some of you have suffered far more than I have in your relationships with family, friends, etc, and I do not mean to suggest that this little instance is anything extraordinary, as it pales in comparison to what others have gone through and are going through. Just thought I'd share, since I do not feel like doing anything else at the moment (like working!).)

[_truth dancer]

Hi MMS...

What other reason for disbelief is acceptable to believers?

Anyone who struggles has obviously been led away by Satan, commited some serious sin, or was offended by a member.

It is impossible in the mindset of a believer to accept another disbelieves because there are some serious issues in the LDS church or because some things/doctrine/teachings/beliefs do not seem true or feel right, so they must go with one of the above three options.

Yes, it is unfortunate but it is reality.

Were you anticipating a believing member would continue with a close friendship knowing your situation?

~dancer~

[_Coggins7]

Well, too bad I wasn't that friend, as we'd still be friends regardless. Indeed, I would consider it incumbent upon me to strengthen that friendship even further given the seriousness with which I take the Gospel and the need to share it and work through times of doubt or questioning within the context of true friendship, which is, without doubt, the best context within which to work.

So sorry your friend is behaving in this manner. Actually, I'd like to hear his side of it as well, as hasty judgments after hearing only one side of a complex issue is ill advised.

[_Inconceivable]

Hi MMS...

What other reason for disbelief is acceptable to believers?

Anyone who struggles has obviously been led away by Satan, commited some serious sin, or was offended by a member.
~dancer~

MMS,

Truth Dancer is more right than she know. I need to confess that the reason why I am disaffected from the church is because I was offended by several members - and I won't go back.

One of the members in question had several affairs with women within the congregation. If he had come on to my wife or daughter, I most likely would be serving time. Even though it's been a few years since he's been gone, it bothers me that many in the congregation think he's really a great spiritual guy inspite of the more than just rumors.

[_harmony]

Anyone who struggles has obviously been led away by Satan, commited some serious sin, or was offended by a member.

I am often offended by members. Joseph Smith offends me. Boyd Packer offends me. Dallin Oaks offends me. Brigham Young offends me. Joseph F Smith really offends me. The list is almost endless.

Yet I remain. *sigh*

[_mentalgymnast]

Hi MMS...

What other reason for disbelief is acceptable to believers?

Anyone who struggles has obviously been led away by Satan, commited some serious sin, or was offended by a member.

It is impossible in the mindset of a believer to accept another disbelieves because there are some serious issues in the LDS church or because some things/doctrine/teachings/beliefs do not seem true or feel right, so they must go with one of the above three options.

Yes, it is unfortunate but it is reality.

Were you anticipating a believing member would continue with a close friendship knowing your situation?

~dancer~

Hi TD,

I don't believe that your POV as stated here really covers all the bases. For example, I think that there are those such as myself who can readily see why some leave the church for reasons other than sin or being offended. As I've mentioned before on this board, I do think that many that have left the church or are died in the wool skeptics have found themselves in this position because of an unwillingness to seriously consider a paradigm shift. Not of the flimsy variety, but one that is reasonable.

I, for one, would continue a close relationship with a non-believer. I would hope that I am not alone.

In regards to paradigm shifts, I was reading over at Times and Seasons and thought that if you hadn't already read it, you might enjoy this blog entry:

http://www.timesandseasons.org/?p=4212#more-4212

It is well worth the read, in my opinion.

If you go down to #8 there is a link that goes to an essay by Todd Compton. It's a bit long, but is also well worth the read. Especially the section called, "Credo". Here's a guy that's been through the mill, and believes in the restoration.

Regards,
MG

[_CaliforniaKid]

MMS,

I know precisely what you mean. I have some friends who would continue to be my friend if they were aware how skeptical I am on religious subjects. And then I have others who look as me like I'm completely insane when I even express any sympathy for unorthodox (read non-fundamentalist) views. When I disagreed with William Jennings Bryan's views on the Bible in class one day, I could see a friend of mine writhing very uncomfortably in her chair across the room. I stopped myself. I want to be up-front about who I am and what I believe, but I'm not willing to do it at the expense of friendships. And in fact, I don't think any of my in real life friends know just quite how skeptical I am. I don't know if that says more about my comfort level or about religious intolerance among Evangelical Christians. Maybe a bit of both.

-Chris

[Guest]

MMS,

Obviously it is more than just being offended. To use the excuse of simply being offended would be petty and simplistic.

But it has been truly a surprisingly offensive and surreal experience these past 2 1/2 years. There is a Mormon household on each side of us. I had kind hearted friends and was very involved in the young men's program for 7 years. Gospel Doctrine was well attended when I taught it and the members voiced their appreciation for my insights and the peaceful "spirit" of my lessons. I served in the EQP and occasionally volunteered to clean the church house. When shallow Mormons that qualified spirituallity by the callings they had filled, I would simply remark that I enjoyed being a Home Teacher. My wife and I were counted as some of the more "regulars" at ward temple night etc. We read the Book of Mormon together nearly every morning for five years and I think our peaceable life reflected the good part of it's message. Yet in all of this, we kept a low profile. We blended in. Our family felt like we were truly "home".

For 2 years I have not been visited by even ONE of my Mormon friends - unless you count the duty bound home teachers - (the elders quorem president and his son). Keeping in mind, I have only voiced my honest concerns to 4 people in the ward - 1) Stake President, 2) Bishop, 3) Elder's quorem president and perhaps his counselor. That is all it took to put the word out that I had a frighteningly contagious disease. Not just myself, but my TBM family as well - that has been difficult for them to understand and accept - guilty or infected by association. They are caught in between.

Odd thing, my TBM wife has only been assigned to Visit Teach women that are having troubles with the history, or their husbands are. She noted this to me the other day and doesn't like it. She feels very uncomfortable being around some of the members that used to be good friends. They treat her differently now and it is not always kind.

The ward bounderies are small. My wife and I walk it regularly for exercize. No Mormon stops to ask how I am really doing - it is just a very quick "hello" and poof, they're about their duties.

[_moksha]

Well, too bad I wasn't that friend, as we'd still be friends regardless. Indeed, I would consider it incumbent upon me to strengthen that friendship even further given the seriousness with which I take the Gospel and the need to share it and work through times of doubt or questioning within the context of true friendship, which is, without doubt, the best context within which to work.

So sorry your friend is behaving in this manner. Actually, I'd like to hear his side of it as well, as hasty judgments after hearing only one side of a complex issue is ill advised.

Here, Here!!! Thanks for adding that Coggins. It is incumbent upon us to be loving whether they are coming or going or anywhere in between.

[_Inconceivable]

Well, too bad I wasn't that friend, as we'd still be friends regardless. Indeed, I would consider it incumbent upon me to strengthen that friendship even further given the seriousness with which I take the Gospel and the need to share it and work through times of doubt or questioning within the context of true friendship, which is, without doubt, the best context within which to work.

So sorry your friend is behaving in this manner...

See now, once again I've had you pegged wrong. I assumed you came off as being abbrasive, condescending and arragant - always.

I guess it's true that you can't always tell who a person is when you only see them driving in heavy traffic.