Significant Questions of Belief

[_BishopRic]

BishopRic,

Care to tackle the twelve questions? Love to get your two cents on those.

Gaz

I just did.

[_msnobody]

5. Do men and women enjoy eternal security from the moment of their spiritual rebirth or must they endure faithfully to the end to have a hope of eternal life?

"Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen. " Jude 1:24-25

[_Jersey Girl]

When last seen on the thread, Jersey Girl was off to scrapbook and leave Gaz to it. Since then, Jersey Girl has replenished scrapbooking supplies ;-) and has a question regarding this:

Noah appeared to other prophets under the name of Gabriel

I'd like to see some scriptural evidence that the above statement is biblically sound. Ref please? I'll come back to see if you've had a chance to answer.

The embellishments, they call to me!*

:-)

*scrapspeak

[_huckelberry]

[quote="liz3564"]Gaz posed some questions to Scratch on another thread. I think these would be great for everyone to think about and answer.

All opinions are welcome!
OK Huckleberry responses below each question.

Thanks, Gaz! These questions are great! :)

1. Does God possess a complete knowledge of the future?
Theoretically yes but the formers of the theory are not all knowing

2. Was the flood of Noah local or global? (A favorite topic of Harmony's)
There is a possiblity the story is based upon a local event. I think it is more likely that the story is a retelling of old folklore which is reshaped in the Bible for allegorical purposes.

3. Was Christ both fully God and fully human during his ministry or did he relinquish his divinity for a season?

I view, with traditional Christian understanding that Chist was fully God and fully human. I do not think he kept access to the dimiension of divine omniscience during his human life because it would be utterly disruptive to his huiman life. Knowing all things would remove his experience from the rest of us so that the atonment would no longer center on a shared live with us.

4. Are only the predestined saved or do all people have a potential for full salvation? (This kind of ties in to the knowledge of the future subject)
I do not think people have any potential for salvation at all except that God wills it. Our potential is to live some years and then die.

5. Do men and women enjoy eternal security from the moment of their spiritual rebirth or must they endure faithfully to the end to have a hope of eternal life?
I actually do not think it is a contest.But people have to continue in faith. I see no saving effect in a few words spoken at some point in time.

6. what happens to babies who die?

I actually have no sure knowledge that is absolute about this,, well if God is love then there is a good clue there. I see no reason to condemn babies.

7. The fate of the unevangelized.

Their life is in the faith toward God in their lives not in the doctrines they may or may not know about. This observation is one of the central beauties of the doctrine saved by faith alone.

8. Is baptism essntial to salvation and to whom should it be administered - infants or mature believers?

No, at least when considering people outside the scope of the church. The church is central to the eternal life of humankind and baptism is the objective link extending the church, Christs conscious presence in the world. I think both infants and mature believers can be baptised.
9. Should women serve in certain ministerial capasities?

I think women should participate equally in all ministerial capasities.

10. Does man play a role in his own salvation beyond an initial confession of Christ as Savior? What is the meaning and place of works?

Everything we do is participation.

11. Is man a child of God or a mere creation of God? What are the psycological effects of each of these views?

Bad and artificial polarity. instead We are created in the image of God. In a sense both created and child.

12. Should wives submit to their husbands and if so how and in what way?

husbands and wives should work together, that on occasion is each submitting to the other. It is better if each encourages the other however.
[/quote]

[_Gazelam]

Jersey,

Joseph Smith taught that Gabriel was Noah. Also that Adam is Michael and Enoch Raphael.

D&C 128:21 states that Michael is Adam. The other references are from various teachings of Joseph.

Gaz

[_Gazelam]

Huckelberry,

4. Are only the predestined saved or do all people have a potential for full salvation? (This kind of ties in to the knowledge of the future subject)
I do not think people have any potential for salvation at all except that God wills it. Our potential is to live some years and then die.

How does this belief coincide with the doctrine that we are saved by grace through the adherence of ordinances? Does your belief mean that certain individuals are predestined?

[_Gazelam]

Msnobody,

Ill pose the same question to you. We are in agreement that salvation is found in Christ, but what stipulations are attached? Joseph Smith taught that we are saved by grace through covenants, what say you?

[_huckelberry]

Huckelberry,

4. Are only the predestined saved or do all people have a potential for full salvation? (This kind of ties in to the knowledge of the future subject)
I do not think people have any potential for salvation at all except that God wills it. Our potential is to live some years and then die.

How does this belief coincide with the doctrine that we are saved by grace through the adherence of ordinances? Does your belief mean that certain individuals are predestined?

Hi Gaz, I have read through and participated in more faith works discussions than I care to continue. I am actually a bit suprised that you have changed the wording to the much more accurate LDS view of faith and ordinances.

Usually keeping the faith works wording allows attacts on the faith alone view by suggesting that faith alone means saying words and continuing evil action which is a picture not fitting Biblical teaching or the statements of Jesus. But traditional protestant understanding of faith is not some words but a life following Jesus which endures to the end. In that sense I believe we are saved by faith alone. Ordiances are a help for individuals. They are part of the outward structure of the church we is designed to be a help for people. I understand the church functioning correctly to be a light and inspritation for all the world. Its health is lifeline to the world. In that view ordinances are of great value. For your life, take and eat.

[_Gazelam]

Huckelberry,

Your view of ordinances sounds similar to the old line that "they are an outward sign of an inward conviction". In other words not necessary for salvation.

John 3:3-5 expresses the idea that through faith you can see the kingdom of God, but to enter the kingdom of God one must be baptised and receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

An authorized servant of the Lord is required to administer the ordinances. (Rom. 1:1; 1 Tim. 4:14)

Lets look at one example.Acts 18:24-25. Apollos was a man who had accepted the teachings of John the Baptist, and had been faithful in the teachings of Christ, having been baptised by John.

Later in 19:2-6 we see that the Gift of the Holy Ghost had not yet been taught to Apollos. he had been acting under the light of Christ that was in him, and his baptism had not yet been completed. Paul confers the Gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands, as Peter had done with Timothy. The second ordinance of bestowing the gift of the Holy Ghost was required of them that believed, despite their faithfulness and good works.

Ordinances are a requirement of the kingdom of God, that the name of Christ might be sealed on the faithful, that their good works may be done in the name of Christ, and the blessings associated with Christ be bestowed on the day of judgement (Rev. 3:21) And the Gift of the Holy Ghost may be bestowed that they may be sanctified and cleansed by his power, and instructed by the spirit in the way to be.

In all of this, the Name of Christ is what saves, and faith on his name. But the Ordinances must be performed, and the name of Christ sealed, and the gifts of the spirit bestowed, all things in order and by proper authority.

[_barrelomonkeys]

1. Does God possess a complete knowledge of the future?

I don't believe in God. If I did believe I would assume He did have that ability to foresee the future. However, if He did have the ability to see the future why the need to test people that are incapable of passing the test? I've heard from most Christians throughout my life that God has some plan and it all works out somehow. I suppose if I believed in God I would have to believe that as well or it just wouldn't mesh for me.

2. Was the flood of Noah local or global?

Local. But I have to mention that I question whether there was anyone going about saving animals from the flood. That just strikes me as odd. Anyway, there were local floods and I assume that a myth was created.

3. Was Christ both fully God and fully human during his ministry or did he relinquish his divinity for a season?

Well. Hmm. I think if Jesus was a historical figure (and I'm open to that possibility) that he was not divine. His radical philosophy and teachings appeal to me for a variety of reasons and I rather like thinking of him as a historical figure. I don't think that answered the question. Sorry.

4. Are only the predestined saved or do all people have a potential for full salvation? (This kind of ties in to the knowledge of the future subject)

If I believed in a God I would hope that he would save all. Although I have nothing from Christianity to base a loving God upon. It appears to me that the God of the Old Testament is just as relevant as the New Testament, to me. Not sure how God of Christianity treats humans. Wishful thinking on my part would be that all have potential for full salvation.

5. Do men and women enjoy eternal security from the moment of their spiritual rebirth or must they endure faithfully to the end to have a hope of eternal life?

I have no idea what that question means. Does that mean a baptism, a spiritual conversion, confession of sins? I would think that it would matter to God (if I can make one up in my head for a moment) what we do rather than what we profess.

6. what happens to babies who die?

Wouldn't it be lovely if there was some heavenly comfy nursery in the clouds somewhere for them? Unfortunately, I believe, when babies die they meet the same fate as the rest of humanity that finds their life at an end.

7. The fate of the unevangelized.

I don't know what this means. I'm assuming it means those that have not received the truth of Christ? I would think (again if I can suppose for a moment that God is someone in the heavens that cares about humanity) that it wouldn't matter.

8. Is baptism essential to salvation and to whom should it be administered - infants or mature believers?

I don't think baptism is essential necessarily (again if I can make believe for a moment). I don't care if parents get their children baptised. I don't care if adults get baptised. It makes no difference to me.

9. Should women serve in certain ministerial capasities?

Yep.

10. Does man play a role in his own salvation beyond an initial confession of Christ as Savior? What is the meaning and place of works?

I actually like the LDS emphasis on works. I like to think of works as the ultimate goal of Christ's message -- to help humanity by love, peace, and justice. I think God would care who you are more than what you profess.

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11. Is man a child of God or a mere creation of God? What are the psycological effects of each of these views? 

I don't know what the psychological effects of these views are. I imagine they're reassuring to many. For me, personally, I would find it comforting to believe in God as a fatherly figure. Obviously I have issues though. ;)

12. Should wives submit to their husbands and if so how and in what way?

Only if they enjoy it and I'd leave it up to each individual marriage to decide. Otherwise no.