I guess the Church teaches the couplet again ....

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_Jason Bourne
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Post by _Jason Bourne »



My credibility being on the line here is tantamount to Robert Bork's credibility being on line at the ACLU. Of course its on line. Its always on line here because that's the kind of place this is. If my credibility weren't on line here I would be more than seriously concerned.


Your credibility is on the line because of so much of what you say and how you say it. Not because you are some valiant defender of the faith as you seem to think.

What should worry you Jason, is the credibility of the people that have credibility here; people you support and defend. You are known, for good or ill, by the company you keep.


Well Coggins, I don't hang out with anyone here in real life. However, based solely on board personalities there are a number here that I think would be more pleasant to share a dinner with then you. I will hold out that in real life you may be a wonderful fellow.

As to emphasis, I used to emphasize this idea all the time when I taught Gospel Doctrine. Its a true principle so I taught it. Has the Church emphasized it? Not in my life time, not officially. Had they emphasized it in the past. Maybe. If so, so what. A number of things were emphasized in the past that are still part of the Gospel but not emphasized.


So you have taught it, it is in lesson manuals, it is in a manual for new members, Church leaders have written about it, Ensign article have discussed it, some talks in conference have referred to it, I was taught it in seminary, in SS, in priesthood. Heck we used to be proud of it. In my life, which overlaps yours, it has been emphasised and was even more so iin the 19th century. To say that it is not emphasized is just plain silly.

You're problem here Jason is that, like so many other of your tempests in proverbial teapots, your worries have to do with precisely nothing. There is no contradiction when Hinckley's words are taken in context. He didn't deny the doctrine, only its importance in the general scheme of all things Mormon at the present time.


And this is your problem Loran. I did not, do not nor have I ever complained about Pres. Hinckley's comments. I do not defend them either by disingenuously arguing that we really don't emphasize this teaching because we have and do. The only comments about Hicnkleys comments I have ever made is that he clearly did not want to delve into it and back peddled. I wish he hadn't but he did. Do I really care that he did? Nope. He is a man makes mistakes and clearly did not want to get into it for whatever reason. I think critics make an issue out of nothing here and that apologists make it worse be trying to defend it as anything other then what it was. A dodge. Big deal.
_Yoda

Post by _Yoda »

Jason wrote:I think critics make an issue out of nothing here and that apologists make it worse be trying to defend it as anything other then what it was. A dodge. Big deal.


I'll add a big AMEN to that, Jason!

;)
_guy sajer
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Post by _guy sajer »

Jason Bourne wrote:
And this is your problem Loran. I did not, do not nor have I ever complained about Pres. Hinckley's comments. I do not defend them either by disingenuously arguing that we really don't emphasize this teaching because we have and do. The only comments about Hicnkleys comments I have ever made is that he clearly did not want to delve into it and back peddled. I wish he hadn't but he did. Do I really care that he did? Nope. He is a man makes mistakes and clearly did not want to get into it for whatever reason. I think critics make an issue out of nothing here and that apologists make it worse be trying to defend it as anything other then what it was. A dodge. Big deal.


GBH's calling is to proclaim the Gospel to the world and to be the ultimate arbiter of gospel doctrine and God's will. He IS, presumably, God's sole, authorized mouthpiece on earth.

Thus, when he clearly dodges an opportunity to proclaim the gospel to the world (and in the process of doing so, tells a lie), then, Yes, it is a big deal. If he claims the mantel, he ought to as least wear it.

Can one imagine Abinidi, Mosiah, Moroni, Mormon, Isaiah, etc. weasling out of an opportunity to proclaim "truth" to the world?

Wrinkley says we should stand for something, but when given the chance, he punts.

Prophet indeed!
God . . . "who mouths morals to other people and has none himself; who frowns upon crimes, yet commits them all; who created man without invitation, . . . and finally, with altogether divine obtuseness, invites this poor, abused slave to worship him ..."
_The Nehor
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Post by _The Nehor »

guy sajer wrote:
Jason Bourne wrote:
And this is your problem Loran. I did not, do not nor have I ever complained about Pres. Hinckley's comments. I do not defend them either by disingenuously arguing that we really don't emphasize this teaching because we have and do. The only comments about Hicnkleys comments I have ever made is that he clearly did not want to delve into it and back peddled. I wish he hadn't but he did. Do I really care that he did? Nope. He is a man makes mistakes and clearly did not want to get into it for whatever reason. I think critics make an issue out of nothing here and that apologists make it worse be trying to defend it as anything other then what it was. A dodge. Big deal.


GBH's calling is to proclaim the Gospel to the world and to be the ultimate arbiter of gospel doctrine and God's will. He IS, presumably, God's sole, authorized mouthpiece on earth.

Thus, when he clearly dodges an opportunity to proclaim the gospel to the world (and in the process of doing so, tells a lie), then, Yes, it is a big deal. If he claims the mantel, he ought to as least wear it.

Can one imagine Abinidi, Mosiah, Moroni, Mormon, Isaiah, etc. weasling out of an opportunity to proclaim "truth" to the world?

Wrinkley says we should stand for something, but when given the chance, he punts.

Prophet indeed!


Didn't Jesus weasel out of a question by saying he would answer if his hecklers would tell him if John the Baptist had authority from God?
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics
"I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
_guy sajer
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Post by _guy sajer »

The Nehor wrote:
guy sajer wrote:
Jason Bourne wrote:
And this is your problem Loran. I did not, do not nor have I ever complained about Pres. Hinckley's comments. I do not defend them either by disingenuously arguing that we really don't emphasize this teaching because we have and do. The only comments about Hicnkleys comments I have ever made is that he clearly did not want to delve into it and back peddled. I wish he hadn't but he did. Do I really care that he did? Nope. He is a man makes mistakes and clearly did not want to get into it for whatever reason. I think critics make an issue out of nothing here and that apologists make it worse be trying to defend it as anything other then what it was. A dodge. Big deal.


GBH's calling is to proclaim the Gospel to the world and to be the ultimate arbiter of gospel doctrine and God's will. He IS, presumably, God's sole, authorized mouthpiece on earth.

Thus, when he clearly dodges an opportunity to proclaim the gospel to the world (and in the process of doing so, tells a lie), then, Yes, it is a big deal. If he claims the mantel, he ought to as least wear it.

Can one imagine Abinidi, Mosiah, Moroni, Mormon, Isaiah, etc. weasling out of an opportunity to proclaim "truth" to the world?

Wrinkley says we should stand for something, but when given the chance, he punts.

Prophet indeed!


Didn't Jesus weasel out of a question by saying he would answer if his hecklers would tell him if John the Baptist had authority from God?


Context, Nehor. If I remember correctly, Jesus did this to point out the hypocrisy of the hecklers.
God . . . "who mouths morals to other people and has none himself; who frowns upon crimes, yet commits them all; who created man without invitation, . . . and finally, with altogether divine obtuseness, invites this poor, abused slave to worship him ..."
_The Nehor
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Post by _The Nehor »

guy sajer wrote:Context, Nehor. If I remember correctly, Jesus did this to point out the hypocrisy of the hecklers.


Still a very effective dodge. Better than Hinckley's. Still, can't expect the servant to outshine the master.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics
"I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
_guy sajer
_Emeritus
Posts: 1372
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2007 2:16 am

Post by _guy sajer »

The Nehor wrote:
guy sajer wrote:Context, Nehor. If I remember correctly, Jesus did this to point out the hypocrisy of the hecklers.


Still a very effective dodge. Better than Hinckley's. Still, can't expect the servant to outshine the master.


It wasn't a dodge. Jesus didn't dodge. Wrinkley did, and he lied in the process (intentionally said someting he knew not to be true).
God . . . "who mouths morals to other people and has none himself; who frowns upon crimes, yet commits them all; who created man without invitation, . . . and finally, with altogether divine obtuseness, invites this poor, abused slave to worship him ..."
_Jason Bourne
_Emeritus
Posts: 9207
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 8:00 pm

Post by _Jason Bourne »

guy sajer wrote:
Jason Bourne wrote:
And this is your problem Loran. I did not, do not nor have I ever complained about Pres. Hinckley's comments. I do not defend them either by disingenuously arguing that we really don't emphasize this teaching because we have and do. The only comments about Hicnkleys comments I have ever made is that he clearly did not want to delve into it and back peddled. I wish he hadn't but he did. Do I really care that he did? Nope. He is a man makes mistakes and clearly did not want to get into it for whatever reason. I think critics make an issue out of nothing here and that apologists make it worse be trying to defend it as anything other then what it was. A dodge. Big deal.


GBH's calling is to proclaim the Gospel to the world and to be the ultimate arbiter of gospel doctrine and God's will. He IS, presumably, God's sole, authorized mouthpiece on earth.

Thus, when he clearly dodges an opportunity to proclaim the gospel to the world (and in the process of doing so, tells a lie), then, Yes, it is a big deal. If he claims the mantel, he ought to as least wear it.

Can one imagine Abinidi, Mosiah, Moroni, Mormon, Isaiah, etc. weasling out of an opportunity to proclaim "truth" to the world?

Wrinkley says we should stand for something, but when given the chance, he punts.

Prophet indeed!


And you proved my point. Much noise about nothing really. Continue on......
_Trevor
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Post by _Trevor »

Frankly, I was disappointed in Hinckley, and after I heard other such prevarications on the part of Church representatives in public, I became convinced that this was not a mistake so much as it was a PR strategy.
“I was hooked from the start,” Snoop Dogg said. “We talked about the purpose of life, played Mousetrap, and ate brownies. The kids thought it was off the hook, for real.”
_Jason Bourne
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Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 8:00 pm

Post by _Jason Bourne »

guy sajer wrote:
The Nehor wrote:
guy sajer wrote:Context, Nehor. If I remember correctly, Jesus did this to point out the hypocrisy of the hecklers.


Still a very effective dodge. Better than Hinckley's. Still, can't expect the servant to outshine the master.
t wasn't a dodge. Jesus didn't dodge. Wrinkley did, and he lied in the process (intentionally said someting he knew not to be true).


by the way Sajer you are a bright fellow. It is really beneath you to use school yard taunts and name distortions like Wrinkley. I expect better from you. You may not like him but use his proper name.
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