Does LDS Faith Depend on Empirical Evidence?

[_Ray A]

One is that he seems to admit the possibility that Book of Mormon historicity may all be one big fraud.

Descartes: "I think, therefore I am."

Scratch: "I think, therefore it is."

[_Sethbag]

What stands out to me is this notion that Book of Mormon geography is inherently a religious notion.

It is, but only because there's no evidence for it. Therefore people must take it on faith.

If the Book of Mormon events really did happen, then it's a history thing, and not a Mormon thing. If there really was a Lehi, and there really was a Nephi, and a Laman, and Lemual, and all the rest, then it's not a Mormon thing at all, but a matter of world history just like Christopher Columbus, the Pilgrims, Francisco Pizzaro, Marco Polo, and the rest of them.

Does anyone consider Pilgrim archeology, or Pilgrim geography to be a religious matter? No, of course not. But then again, there actually is some evidence that the Pilgrims really did land in 1620 or whenever it was.

The most damning thing about Book of Mormon archeology and geopgraphy is that there simply isn't any. There is no evidence, no artifacts, no writings, no nothing, that doesn't come straight from the hands of the angel Moroni and the magic peepstone of Joseph Smith. Mormons start from the premise that Book of Mormon ruins, Book of Mormon artifacts, and so forth ought to exist, and then go look for them. If they found them, they'd create a brand new discipline within the secular science of archeology. But they don't find them, so it's not inherently an archeological topic at all, only a matter of faith for a few million believers in Joseph Smith's peepstone's power to translate.

[_Some Schmo]

You think DCP doesn't believe in the truth of the Church, the Book of Mormon, etc.?

This shows you are living in la la land.

If I were living in la la land, you'd surely know about it since you'd be my neighbor.

I often get the feeling that although DCP consciously thinks he believes it all, he unconsciously doesn't which is why he says and does the stupid things he says and does (cog dis, anyone?) I'm actually giving him the benefit of the doubt, here.

[_Sethbag]

I often get the feeling that although DCP consciously thinks he believes it all, he unconsciously doesn't which is why he says and does the stupid things he says and does (cog dis, anyone?) I'm actually giving him the benefit of the doubt, here.

I believe that DCP has chosen to believe that the church is true. Having made his choice, his actions and his attitudes are all based on that premise. My dad is like that. He decided a long time ago to believe that the church is true, and now everything he does is based on that premise, and he's admitted to me that he could care less whether the church really is true or not. He's made his choice, he likes it, it works for him, and he's sticking with it. So he writes absurd apologetics trying to find ways of harmonizing Mormon believes like the creation of the Earth as an immortal world, and the science of evolution, which he accepts, which requires death in the world. He's finding ways to justify his continued belief.

But he's chosen that belief, and there's no apparent difference between that choice and actual, heartfelt belief. It's the same thing, for all intents and purposes.

[_Some Schmo]

I often get the feeling that although DCP consciously thinks he believes it all, he unconsciously doesn't which is why he says and does the stupid things he says and does (cog dis, anyone?) I'm actually giving him the benefit of the doubt, here.

I believe that DCP has chosen to believe that the church is true. Having made his choice, his actions and his attitudes are all based on that premise. My dad is like that. He decided a long time ago to believe that the church is true, and now everything he does is based on that premise, and he's admitted to me that he could care less whether the church really is true or not. He's made his choice, he likes it, it works for him, and he's sticking with it. So he writes absurd apologetics trying to find ways of harmonizing Mormon believes like the creation of the Earth as an immortal world, and the science of evolution, which he accepts, which requires death in the world. He's finding ways to justify his continued belief.

But he's chosen that belief, and there's no apparent difference between that choice and actual, heartfelt belief. It's the same thing, for all intents and purposes.

Yep, entirely plausible.