Has Olmec Iron Been Found in Mexico?

[_beastie]

It's been known for a long time that the Olmecs worked with native iron, usually to fashion mirrors used in religious ceremonies. This iron was obtained through mineral outcrops or meteorites. This is indisputable.

Once again, a sleight of hand seems to be employed here. Yes, ancient Mesoamericans used metal and worked the metal to make items. Ancient Mesoamericans did not employ the technology of metallurgy. Metallurgy is clearly described in the Book of Mormon. That is the problem. There is zero evidence - linguistic or archaeological - of metallurgy during the Book of Mormon time period in ancient Meosamerica.

Here's the link to my essay on metallurgy and the Book of Mormon, in particular, the difference between metal working and metallurgy, and why evidence of the former does not support the latter:

http://zarahemlacitylimits.com/wiki/ind ... Metallurgy

[_rcrocket]

Worked iron is occasionally found and appears to have been a trade good. See the articles Villa Taina de Boqueron, esp.Chalcatzingo, in Peter N. Peregrine, Encyclopedia of Prehistory (Vol. 3 Middle America) (2002) I don't buy the meteorite explanation for all iron; these articles don't suggest it.

Metallurgy was in use long before Columbus, but metal tools were not in widespread use. See the Central Mexico Postclassic, Ecuadorian Highlands articles in the same work. One of these articles puts the use of metallurgy at 250 A.D. (1250 B.P.). The article states that on this date, metallurgy was introduced to the Mexican highlands from South America, where metallurgy was already being employed. Beastie's comments in the next post about chronology are wrong.

The article Beastie cites (her own) was not peer reviewed. The work I cite was peer reviewed.

rcrocket

[_beastie]

Metallurgy was in use long before Columbus, but metal tools were not in widespread use. See the Central Mexico Postclassic, Ecuadorian Highlands articles in the same work.

This is also true. However, metallurgy was not in use until long after the Book of Mormon time period as well.

[_Doctor Steuss]

This is also true. However, metallurgy was not in use until long after the Book of Mormon time period as well.

Out of curiosity, around which time period did metallurgy become commonplace (or at least somewhat widespread)?

[_beastie]

Out of curiosity, around which time period did metallurgy become commonplace (or at least somewhat widespread)?

Probably around 1200 AD.

(and even then we're talking about a pretty minimal use, mainly copper tools, certainly not steel swords or anything like it!)

[_Trevor]

I guess you're right. The NHM altar piece doesn't really exist, the Witness testimonies were never really written down, if/and conditional sentences don't actually occur in the Original Manuscript of the Book of Mormon, Asherah imagery didn't actually involve a tree, worked Olmec iron hasn't really been found, and etc. There's nothing. Nothing at all.

The Witness testimonies mean very little without the object that they were witness too or accurate drawings of it at the very least (I say this because many ancient inscriptions have been destroyed since they were discovered and transcribed).

As Don Bradley has cogently demonstrated, the NHM altar is not evidence for the antiquity of the Book of Mormon.

So what if Asherah imagery did involve a tree.

Etc...

None of this actually demonstrates the antiquity of the Book of Mormon. Without a testimony of it first, no one with a reliable methodological approach to ancient artifacts would accept the Book of Mormon as an ancient document. End of story.

[_Trevor]

This is also true. However, metallurgy was not in use until long after the Book of Mormon time period as well.

Even if they can date metallurgy to so-called "Book of Mormon" times, this only lends possibility to its antiquity.

[_beastie]

Even if they can date metallurgy to so-called "Book of Mormon" times, this only lends possibility to its antiquity.

The Book of Mormon is riddled with so many anachronisms of various types that resolving one doesn't help in the end.

[_Trevor]

The Book of Mormon is riddled with so many anachronisms of various types that resolving one doesn't help in the end.

The only way the Book of Mormon is not an anachronism as an object, is when it is considered a 19th century work of religious fiction (or pseudepigrapha).

[_beastie]

Worked iron is occasionally found and appears to have been a trade good. See the articles Villa Taina de Boqueron, esp.Chalcatzingo, in Peter N. Peregrine, Encyclopedia of Prehistory (Vol. 3 Middle America) (2002) I don't buy the meteorite explanation for all iron; these articles don't suggest it.

Metallurgy was in use long before Columbus, but metal tools were not in widespread use. See the Central Mexico Postclassic, Ecuadorian Highlands articles in the same work. One of these articles puts the use of metallurgy at 250 A.D. (1250 B.P.). The article states that on this date, metallurgy was introduced to the Mexican highlands from South America, where metallurgy was already being employed. Beastie's comments in the next post about chronology are wrong.

The article Beastie cites (her own) was not peer reviewed. The work I cite was peer reviewed.

rcrocket

My essay cites the experts. They're the ones making assertions, I just put together and share what they assert.

I'm not familiar with your citation and therefore can't comment on it. But I can say that I've never read a single source that claims such an early date for metallurgy. Why don't you share some pertinent citations from the article yourself? That will at least give us leads to go on. To be frank, I am very suspicious of your claim, since it is so contradictory to everything I've read on the subject.

It doesn't matter whether you "buy" the meteorite and the iron ore explanation for the iron objects in ancient Mesoamerica. Those who have spent their entire lives studying Mesoamerica do buy it. Moreover, the iron objects were being fashioned in the Olmec period. So if you insist that these objects could only have been produced through metallurgy, something no source I've read ever suggested, then metallurgy would have developed in ancient Mesoamerica over a thousand years earlier than the date you claim from the article you cite.