Many apologists are ever-eager to find a flaw in science. Not that it's too hard, science is filled with flaws. It would seem, rather than showing how good religion is, their only option is to show science is just as bad. A typical thread, here, on FAIR/MAD:
But, of course. There is no subjectivity in science. There is no subjectivity in science. There is no subjectivity in science. There is no subjectivity in science. And so on. Maybe if you chant it long enough it'll become true. Nothing "religious" about that, huh?
Faith is the upmost human failing that science has been unsuccessful in erradicating while faith is the first principle of the Mormon Gospel.
The very foundation of religion, faith, is responsible for the failures of science.
And this isn't what the skeptics are arguing, it's coming right from the apologists! Blows your mind, doesn't it?
Lou Midgley 08/20/2020: "...meat wad," and "cockroach" are pithy descriptions of human beings used by gemli? They were not fashioned by Professor Peterson.
LM 11/23/2018: one can explain away the soul of human beings...as...a Meat Unit, to use Professor Peterson's clever derogatory description of gemli's ideology.
But, of course. There is no subjectivity in science. There is no subjectivity in science. There is no subjectivity in science. There is no subjectivity in science. And so on. Maybe if you chant it long enough it'll become true. Nothing "religious" about that, huh?
[...]
I personally don't think there's anything "typical" about YH8.
"Some people never go crazy. What truly horrible lives they must lead." ~Charles Bukowski
I think it comes from misidentifying faith with belief. Faith is a belief but not all belief is faith. It doesn't help that some people claim faith when they only have belief.
NEHOR'S TIERS OF BELIEF
Level One: Unprovable assertion. Example: "I believe in String Theory"
This level is purely a guess based on instinct and what you had for breakfast.
Level Two: Weak theory. Example: "I believe that we should withdraw from the UN."
This level is a guess in a field you generally know little about. It is based on what you have read and a good bit of gut instinct. Smart people realize they can be wrong on this level. Morons do not.
Level Three: Strong theory. Example: "If I quit smoking, I will live longer."
This is a much more educated guess. While not entirely sure of the results, you can predict them fairly well.
Level Four: Borderline Fact. Example: "The founding fathers signed the Declaration of Independence in 1776."
This is something considered to be so proven that it would take monumental evidence to overturn it. It could be a bedrock principle or just something you take as proven.
Level Five: Faith. Example: "Exercise will grant me more energy and better health" and the person goes out and does it.
Faith is a belief that motivates to action. If you have faith in your spouse then you will actually trust them. If you have faith in democracy you will do all you can to uphold it.
Faith is unique in the list in that it can be present in any of the above.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics "I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
Doctor Steuss wrote:I personally don't think there's anything "typical" about YH8.
LOL. YH8 is your typical Mormon pumped up on crack and amphetamines.
What Gadianton has pointed out here is not an uncommon response. Many religious people who don't understand the goals and workings of science are apt to "level the playing field" by saying science relies on faith as well, or that science is even a religion all of its own. A more self-reflective apologist might not want to trivilaize religious faith in this manner.
"And yet another little spot is smoothed out of the echo chamber wall..." Bond
beastie wrote:Yes, one of my all time favorite apologetic tactics - to make science look bad, they try and make it look like religion!!!!!
alright, who handed over the playbook?
One moment in annihilation's waste, one moment, of the well of life to taste- The stars are setting and the caravan starts for the dawn of nothing; Oh, make haste! -Omar Khayaam
beastie wrote:Yes, one of my all time favorite apologetic tactics - to make science look bad, they try and make it look like religion!!!!!
alright, who handed over the playbook?
I sold one on Ebay......sorry.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics "I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
The Nehor wrote:I think it comes from misidentifying faith with belief. Faith is a belief but not all belief is faith. It doesn't help that some people claim faith when they only have belief.
NEHOR'S TIERS OF BELIEF
Level One: Unprovable assertion. Example: "I believe in String Theory"
This level is purely a guess based on instinct and what you had for breakfast.
Level Two: Weak theory. Example: "I believe that we should withdraw from the UN."
This level is a guess in a field you generally know little about. It is based on what you have read and a good bit of gut instinct. Smart people realize they can be wrong on this level. Morons do not.
Level Three: Strong theory. Example: "If I quit smoking, I will live longer."
This is a much more educated guess. While not entirely sure of the results, you can predict them fairly well.
Level Four: Borderline Fact. Example: "The founding fathers signed the Declaration of Independence in 1776."
This is something considered to be so proven that it would take monumental evidence to overturn it. It could be a bedrock principle or just something you take as proven.
Level Five: Faith. Example: "Exercise will grant me more energy and better health" and the person goes out and does it.
Faith is a belief that motivates to action. If you have faith in your spouse then you will actually trust them. If you have faith in democracy you will do all you can to uphold it.
Faith is unique in the list in that it can be present in any of the above.
Good post. I like this list!
If there's one thing I've learned from this board, it's that consensual sex with multiple partners is okay unless God commands it. - Abman
I find this place to be hostile toward all brands of stupidity. That's why I like it. - Some Schmo
The Nehor wrote:I think it comes from misidentifying faith with belief. Faith is a belief but not all belief is faith. It doesn't help that some people claim faith when they only have belief.
NEHOR'S TIERS OF BELIEF
Level One: Unprovable assertion. Example: "I believe in String Theory"
This level is purely a guess based on instinct and what you had for breakfast.
Level Two: Weak theory. Example: "I believe that we should withdraw from the UN."
This level is a guess in a field you generally know little about. It is based on what you have read and a good bit of gut instinct. Smart people realize they can be wrong on this level. Morons do not.
Level Three: Strong theory. Example: "If I quit smoking, I will live longer."
This is a much more educated guess. While not entirely sure of the results, you can predict them fairly well.
Level Four: Borderline Fact. Example: "The founding fathers signed the Declaration of Independence in 1776."
This is something considered to be so proven that it would take monumental evidence to overturn it. It could be a bedrock principle or just something you take as proven.
Level Five: Faith. Example: "Exercise will grant me more energy and better health" and the person goes out and does it.
Faith is a belief that motivates to action. If you have faith in your spouse then you will actually trust them. If you have faith in democracy you will do all you can to uphold it.
Faith is unique in the list in that it can be present in any of the above.
Good post. I like this list!
Thanks, I came up with it this week to use in a lesson on Faith coming up.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics "I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo