Jason Bourne wrote:The lack of a threat, if you will, of punishment from a just and holy God, or the lack of morals and restraints that religion can provide does lead to the maniacs becoming what they become. A good thing to do? I am not sure it says that. But it certainly shapes the way the atheist dictator operates.
Jason, you would benefit from reading some Marc Hauser. Certain moral principles tend to be universal among humans despite different religious training or complete lack thereof. I'm not sure what you are implying: that pre-existing maniacs (whatever you mean by that) are restrained by religion, or that lack of religion turns people into maniacs? This is most certainly not true.
Cause and effect. Look at Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot and on and on. Had they had moral religious groundings would they have become what they became? I do not know for sure. However, the system Stalin supported was systematically atheistic. Are you arguing that this had nothing at all to do with his ease and comfort in slaughtering his fellow men and women?
Stalin had a very good religious grounding. In fact, it was much better than yours, I dare say. He attended a seminary that prepared professional clergy. What better grounding could one hope for?
Hitler very likely believed in the supernatural, or Providence, as he called it, if not necessarily a Christian God. In fact, he believed that Providence chose him for his role (sound familiar?)
Everyone should just read The God Delusion already. Dawkins addresses all of this very concisely and eloquently. I was reluctant to read it because of all the negative reviews the book was getting, even from other scientists sometimes. Well, the reviews turned out to be BS. Really, you should give it a try. Perhaps then you wouldn't be trying to make this kind of arguments.
Religion is dogmatic and often against reason. Religion does not teach people to evaluate the evidence and think critically; it teaches you to blindly rely on authority, which, in turn, produces the type of thinking that you seem to share: that fear of punishment from God is necessary in order to be moral. It's not true, there is research available on the subject, and I think it's actually a very cynical way to look at people. If people are such low creatures, how are they supposed to end up as Gods? I know you don't believe all of LDS theology, but if people are such sheep and always need someone with a whip standing nearby to prevent them from killing, raping and pillaging, what's really the point? I think it's a much more depressing position than atheism.
Religion basically asks you to abandon your sense of right and wrong for what the scriptures or the prophet tell you to do. You are given a hierarchy of truths, with respect for some form of authority usually being at the top. This way, when the Church changes its postion on something, you will be more inclined to follow authority than to hold on to your old position. Very convenient. It scares me that so many religious people really think that they need to be intimidated in order not to become maniacs. I have not met very many atheists who think like that.
Of course, this whole discussion is emphasizing human rationality too much. I'm pretty sure that if you were to become an atheist or if you had never been religious, you would still be the same upstanding citizen you probably are now.