Indefensible, Incoherent, Inconsistent. Who is Desperate?

[_Trevor]

So you all are here, in an anti-Mormon friendly environment for what reason? To pat each other on the back, and try to hold on to your non-faith. You are so scared that the Book of Mormon might be what it says it is, that Joseph Smith might really be a prophet, that you have to try to beat the book and the prophet down as hard as you can.

This is an absolute howler! Scared of the Book of Mormon? Trying to hold onto non-faith? Faith in Mormonism is irrelevant to me. It is relevant to you. You can't make it my concern simply by projecting. I enjoy talking about Mormonism because I was raised Mormon, I have a predominantly Mormon family, and I find Joseph Smith and Mormonism intellectually fascinating. I am scared of absolutely nothing when it comes to Mormonism, and the more I learn about Joseph Smith, the more I become convinced that he was not the person the average LDS person places his or her trust in.

[_truth dancer]

Charity,

Do you think folks who leave an Amish community, Scientology, JWs, the FLDS, or any other religion, cult, or faith tradition, and who enjoy conversing about their experiences, culture, family, former beliefs, and the human ability for belief, are all equally scared that their former beliefs are really true?



~dancer~

[_Pokatator]

Charity, you have such a narcissistic view of everything.

Here is some examples of your recent insults and manners, sit back read and enjoy.

I am one of a very few actual believing LDS who is on the board to correct the misconceptions.

I get the impression that. . . ." You guys must not have a clue as to what constitutes evidence. Shssssssh.

Try to stay on topic, will you?

Did you read where I said the latest thinking is that apostate Mormons and vociferous critics are very rigid in their thinking?

Didn't your mother teach you anything?

And yes, I know this sounds arrogant. Can't help it. This is just the way it is.

I know what truth is. As one who is also familiar with academic process I understand that often times people think they "own" the truth and they don't like it when anyone else comes along with a different idea. And they fight it. Think of the Ptolomy-Copernicus debate.

I can't speculate. If they were given a "witness" that Joseph Smith or Brigham Young were not prophets, then it was Satan who answered their prayers. That definite enough for you?

"oh, yes, it is. I know better than you."

Have you got that now, and you won't ever make that mistake again?

Maybe that is too subtle a difference for you to undestand.

How many repeats does it take?

Thanks for supplying yet another example of a cockamamie anti-Mormon strategy. Define words the way you want to use them, apply them to LDS and then try to ridicule and deride LDS beliefs according to YOUR definition.

This is the real definition of "delusion" in the field of psychiatry: A false belief strongly held in spite of invalidating evidence, especially as a symptom of mental illness: delusions of persecution. No, I won't accept your made up definition. The only way language is funcitonal is if people agree what the definition of the word is. Dictionaries are our culture's accepted standard. You don't get to make up your own dictionary. So * or not, I don't accept. You are stuck with speaking/writing English, not beastiese.

So much ignorance, so little time. *sigh*

Now, do you get it?

Talk about shifting sands!

I don't have time to go thorugh Genetics 101 for you.

Otherwise you are just blathering.

Sorry. I got my education on genealogy from college level courses, not from guys in their garages with a video camera.

Please use the correct word. I know it is a picky little thing, but the word is princiPAL.

My, my. I am really just a mild mannered grandmother.

Why am the only person who can see how inconsistent that is?

And mama always said if the circumstance was correct, it wasn't rumor.

I can tell, but I won't. You see what happens to absolutely decent, honest scholars on this board. Nobody deserves that. You could find out on your own if you did your research. But it you are too lazy, then you can twist in the wind and worry about it.

Or are you just talking generally, and hoping the measurement thing falls through the crack, because you haven't a clue what it was all about.

Maybe lithium would help your paranoia.

Talk about a comprehension deficit.

I think my "feelings" come from the psychological and physiological processes of emotional response. My emotions don't come from God.

The shame of the critics, anti-Mormons and ex-Mormons is that they get proud and arrogant, think they know things they don't really know, and then judge other people for having a different understanding of the facts.

I get tired of reading weak attempts to explain the unexplainable.

About my pride and arrogance. Only in your mind. And maybe because you envy what I have and what you don't.

These are the recent ones, many of which are in your own threads that start out with a neener, neener and then you get your butt handed back to you. Your track record here hasn't been very good lately. I got a couple of scriptures for you to read.

Matthew 7:3 Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?

Matthew 7:5 You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.

Luke 6:42 How can you say to your brother, 'Brother, let me take out the speck that is in your eye,' when you yourself do not see the log that is in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take out the speck that is in your brother's eye.

Charity you are so blind.

[_Inconceivable]

There are often comments such as this. The LDS faithful are accused of trying desperately to hold on to their faith in the face of evidence to the contrary. Defending the indefensible.

Charity I don't see you this way.

I percieve you as more like a frenzied zealot that actually thinks your God has given you this mission to defend his abominable and confusing behavior toward his children.

For a zealot Mormon, it's always about a mission from God.

Someday when you fall, you will fall hard. When this happens you will find the crowd here more forgiving than the condescending facade of love that you now identify yourself with.

Lighten up. Your church has some fatal rough edges. If I were you, I'd stop blabbering and let your God defend himself. Or can he? You shouldn't have to do that for him if he's the only one that understands himself (because you surely have no idea). You ought to step back and listen to Him. Yeah, I think he is a monster.

[_the road to hana]

I percieve you as more like a frenzied zealot that actually thinks your God has given you this mission to defend his abominable and confusing behavior toward his children.

For a zealot Mormon, it's always about a mission from God.

Someday when you fall, you will fall hard. When this happens you will find the crowd here more forgiving than the condescending facade of love that you now identify yourself with.

Unfortunately, this is true.

Inconceivable, I'd say your assessment is spot on.

[_beastie]

Unfortunately, this is true.

Inconceivable, I'd say your assessment is spot on.

Charity is the best live demonstration of the Hoffer quote I shared above that I've ever seen.

[_MishMagnet]

I don't think this was directed at me.

However - I don't fear the Book of Mormon is true. I don't think there is even a 1% chance that it is true.

My entire family is active in the church and our ancestory goes way back to the beginning of the church. Up till a few years ago I was having emotional issues any time I had to deal with the church. I sought a therapist after an instance where the missionaries came by and I broke out in hives while speaking to them.

Several difficulties have stuck with me since childhood. Not feeling that I had the right to question, or disagree. Up until a few years ago I didn't realize I had the choice to not answer the door or the phone. I didn't realize I had the right to say I didn't want Visiting Teachers. I went along in my life looking over my shoulder, fearing the next time I would have to deal with the church. I didn't fear the church was true - it was a very deeply ingrained sense of learned helplessness.

I made steps to find others like me and then I made steps to find others not like me. It's helped me, psychologically, to be able to disagree, no matter how quietly I do so. It's helped me to think about both sides of issues.

I don't worry Joseph Smith was a prophet anymore than I worry that Warren Jeffs is a prophet. If I were all alone in the world I would have walked away and probably never looked back. I'm not, though. I have my entire family to deal with. The church will always be in my life and I will always have to deal with both it and rigid believers.

[_Inconceivable]

Charity,

It may very well crack your soul to admit that some things purportedly sanctioned by your God are and were socialy reprehensible.

TD has some good advice.

But, alas, surely you have not come to seek understanding but to preach and reclaim.

This is arrogance, Charity.

[_beastie]

I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm deathly afraid that scientology is true, and the thetans are messing with me.

[_Inconceivable]

Unfortunately, this is true.

Inconceivable, I'd say your assessment is spot on.

Charity is the best live demonstration of the Hoffer quote I shared above that I've ever seen.

word.