thestyleguy wrote:Romney's speech will not get into specifics about LDS beliefs but will speak on freedom of religion in America. I'm listening to the Bill Bennett show and he said he read the speech and was disappointed it in. He and callers wanted more specifics on LDS beliefs.
After reading the transcript, I'm convinced he lost both ways: he said enough to get disembowled by the Danites and not enough to win over the religious right. ;)
"Moving beyond apologist persuasion, LDS polemicists furiously (and often fraudulently) attack any non-traditional view of Mormonism. They don't mince words -- they mince the truth."
-- Mike Quinn, writing of the FARMSboys, in "Early Mormonism and the Magic World View," p. x (Rev. ed. 1998)
Wait---so those with mental disabilities can't hold a temple recommend?*
I had never heard this.
I didn't say they couldn't have a TR. I said they couldn't view a sealing. :-)
Last I heard, if a person cannot understand and make the covenants associated with the temple, with full understanding they are not allowed to take out their endowments.
Those with mental disabilities do not need baptism or any other ordinance but if parents wish, those with mental disabilities can be baptized even if they do not understand the event.
In addition, last I heard, in the LDS church, there is no need for a person with mental disabilities to have any ordinances done.
Things are always changing in the LDS church so there might me some new rule of which I am unaware.
~dancer~
*Young people doing baptisms for the dead can have a TR, limited though it may be. And children who are being sealed to parents can have a TR specific for their sealing.
"The search for reality is the most dangerous of all undertakings for it destroys the world in which you live." Nisargadatta Maharaj
thestyleguy wrote:Romney's speech will not get into specifics about LDS beliefs but will speak on freedom of religion in America. I'm listening to the Bill Bennett show and he said he read the speech and was disappointed it in. He and callers wanted more specifics on LDS beliefs.
After reading the transcript, I'm convinced he lost both ways: he said enough to get disembowled by the Danites and not enough to win over the religious right. ;)
You must be referring to the part where he shook the local mayor's hand in a peculiar way and then looked him in the eye and asked "what is that?"
Last edited by Anonymous on Thu Dec 06, 2007 11:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Mormonism ceased being a compelling topic for me when I finally came to terms with its transformation from a personality cult into a combination of a real estate company, a SuperPac, and Westboro Baptist Church. - Kishkumen
thestyleguy wrote:Romney's speech will not get into specifics about LDS beliefs but will speak on freedom of religion in America. I'm listening to the Bill Bennett show and he said he read the speech and was disappointed it in. He and callers wanted more specifics on LDS beliefs.
After reading the transcript, I'm convinced he lost both ways: he said enough to get disembowled by the Danites and not enough to win over the religious right. ;)
I think he has won over a good part of the religious right already. He has been andoresed by many of them won a straw poll at one of their events, even over Huckabee.
Freedom requires religion just as religion requires freedom. Freedom opens the windows of the soul so that man can discover his most profound beliefs and commune with God. Freedom and religion endure together, or perish alone.
That has to be one of the dumbest things I've ever heard a politician say (and I've heard most of Bush's speeches, so that's really saying something). If this guy gets elected, my family and I may have to move to the Bahamas.
God belief is for people who don't want to live life on the universe's terms.
Freedom requires religion just as religion requires freedom. Freedom opens the windows of the soul so that man can discover his most profound beliefs and commune with God. Freedom and religion endure together, or perish alone.
Shouldn't a potential President at the very least acknowledge women as well.
Is it too difficult to say, "men and women"?
Mitt's speech writers need to move into this century!
;-)
~dancer~
"The search for reality is the most dangerous of all undertakings for it destroys the world in which you live." Nisargadatta Maharaj
I thought it was actually not that bad a speech, but I think it was a few minutes too long. There were several points in the speech that would have been perfectly natural as end points, and then he kept going.
Also, I didn't really like some of the stuff like "freedom requires religion" as mentioned above, but for the most part, it was a pretty reasonable speech, if you're a religiously-minded person. As an atheistically-minded person now, I found it a bit too religious, but hey, that's what it was going to be about, so it lived up to its billing.
I think some parts of the speech might actually help some EVs find a way to support him. I think the part, in particular, where he said that if he were to list out Mormon doctrines and explain and justify each one, all that would do is set him up for the very religious test that ought not to be applied, which would be wrong. I think his logic for accepting him based on the sincerity and general goodness of his religiously-derived moral beliefs was pretty good. Moderate EVs might well accept that logic. The really hard-core "Mormons are tools of Satan" types won't, but then there's probably nothing Romney could have said to win them over.
I honestly don't know the speech will affect him. I guess they'll run polls and see. If I were religious I think it would have had a net positive impact with me.
Mormonism ceased being a compelling topic for me when I finally came to terms with its transformation from a personality cult into a combination of a real estate company, a SuperPac, and Westboro Baptist Church. - Kishkumen
Some Schmo wrote:That speech made me sick to my stomach.
Freedom requires religion just as religion requires freedom. Freedom opens the windows of the soul so that man can discover his most profound beliefs and commune with God. Freedom and religion endure together, or perish alone.
That has to be one of the dumbest things I've ever heard a politician say (and I've heard most of Bush's speeches, so that's really saying something). If this guy gets elected, my family and I may have to move to the Bahamas.
George W. Bush has indeed said quite a few dumb thing as President. I don't think and believe that part of Mitt Romney's speech is dumber than the dumbest thing that George W. Bush has said as President. You will probably have to go back over 100 years to find a President who has said something as dumb or dumber as George W. Bush has said as President.
"And I've said it before, you want to know what Joseph Smith looked like in Nauvoo, just look at Trump." - Fence Sitter
Actually I don't think there's ever been a president who said as stupid of things as GWB has said.
ps: and I voted for him - twice. I wouldn't do it again if I could go back in time. Not with what we know now.
Mormonism ceased being a compelling topic for me when I finally came to terms with its transformation from a personality cult into a combination of a real estate company, a SuperPac, and Westboro Baptist Church. - Kishkumen
I read it...not really impressive. Alot of rhetoric and appeals to the authority of the Founding Fathers, only two brief mentions of Mormonism, a quick reference to his Mormon beliefs and a comparison of Brigham Young to some other religious people who were ejected from their communities and subsequently founded new US states/territories. Maybe enough to sway over a few of the Religous Right, but they believe most anything.
"Whatever appears to be against the Book of Mormon is going to be overturned at some time in the future. So we can be pretty open minded."-charity 3/7/07