Romney not to get into specifics about LDS beliefs but will

[_Some Schmo]

That speech made me sick to my stomach.

Freedom requires religion just as religion requires freedom. Freedom opens the windows of the soul so that man can discover his most profound beliefs and commune with God. Freedom and religion endure together, or perish alone.

That has to be one of the dumbest things I've ever heard a politician say (and I've heard most of Bush's speeches, so that's really saying something). If this guy gets elected, my family and I may have to move to the Bahamas.

George W. Bush has indeed said quite a few dumb thing as President. I don't think and believe that part of Mitt Romney's speech is dumber than the dumbest thing that George W. Bush has said as President. You will probably have to go back over 100 years to find a President who has said something as dumb or dumber as George W. Bush has said as President.

Well, that's why I was careful to say "one of" the dumbest things...

;)

[_Zoidberg]

That speech was AWESOME!!! There was a phrase in it I just had to put in my sig line.

ROFL

[_Trevor]

I recently read the Romney speech. I really didn't have a problem with it. It sounded reasonable. I am less inclined to worry about him as a candidate than I have been. I wouldn't say it is the speech alone that did this, but it certainly didn't hurt. Maybe it is the fact that I would prefer Romney as a candidate over Mike Huckabee. Still, I would like to think my thoughts are not ruled by competing prejudices.

The bottom line is that I wouldn't vote for either Huckabee or Romney, but I am much less inclined to be antagonistic toward Romney or fear his Mormonism. Why his version of kookiness should be any more off-putting than Huckabee's is a total mystery to me.

[_Jason Bourne]

I'm sorry, I didn't follow you. I'm assuming you meant to write "except" instead of "accept".

Yes except. Sorry.

Christian religions, whether Catholic or Protestant, believe in the the oneness of substance and essence, I.e the Trinity.

In general yes, ORTHODOX Christian religions do. But the doctrine of the trinity is not all that cut and dry and there are lots of flavors out there. The dogma took hundreds and hundreds of years to develop and many before it come along believed in a Godhead much like LDS do. Currently there is a movement among more orthodox Christians called social trinitarianism which again is similar to LDS beliefs.

I don't think this is a Mormon belief; I could be wrong.

Mormons are not creedal trinitarians. This does not mean they are not Christians.

If standard, or orthodox, Christianity defines Jesus Christ as one with the Father and Holy Ghost, and Lucifer as a fallen angel, then saying Jesus and Lucifer are brothers is not Christian.

If standard, or orthodox, Christianity states that God is eternal, and Mormonism says God was once a man, that is not Christian.

If standard, or orthodox, Christianity says that there is one God, and Mormonism says that I can become a God when I die, that is not Christian.

I already said Mormonism is not orthodox Christian. We can debate the problems the items above cause for Mormonism being considered Christian in another thread. in my opinion the differences you list do not disqualify Mormonism from the umbrella of Christianity.

Just because the Mormon church uses Jesus Christ in its name, doesn't make it a Christian church.

Just because the Mormon Church had differences from orthodox Christianity does not exclude it from being Christian.

Yes, it is Christian, the way it defines Christian, but not the way the term is normally defined.

I can say I'm eating a fish called Mahi-Mahi at a restaurant, but it's still dolphin, no matter what I call it.

You can eat salmon and I can eat trout and we are both eating fish

But really I don't care to debate it with you. It is an endless debate. Anyway, in its purest position the LDS Church is THE CHRISTIAN Church and all the rest are apostate pretenders.

[_karl61]

I'm sorry, I didn't follow you. I'm assuming you meant to write "except" instead of "accept".

Yes except. Sorry.

Christian religions, whether Catholic or Protestant, believe in the the oneness of substance and essence, I.e the Trinity.

In general yes, ORTHODOX Christian religions do. But the doctrine of the trinity is not all that cut and dry and there are lots of flavors out there. The dogma took hundreds and hundreds of years to develop and many before it come along believed in a Godhead much like LDS do. Currently there is a movement among more orthodox Christians called social trinitarianism which again is similar to LDS beliefs.

I don't think this is a Mormon belief; I could be wrong.

Mormons are not creedal trinitarians. This does not mean they are not Christians.

If standard, or orthodox, Christianity defines Jesus Christ as one with the Father and Holy Ghost, and Lucifer as a fallen angel, then saying Jesus and Lucifer are brothers is not Christian.

If standard, or orthodox, Christianity states that God is eternal, and Mormonism says God was once a man, that is not Christian.

If standard, or orthodox, Christianity says that there is one God, and Mormonism says that I can become a God when I die, that is not Christian.

I already said Mormonism is not orthodox Christian. We can debate the problems the items above cause for Mormonism being considered Christian in another thread. in my opinion the differences you list do not disqualify Mormonism from the umbrella of Christianity.

Just because the Mormon church uses Jesus Christ in its name, doesn't make it a Christian church.

Just because the Mormon Church had differences from orthodox Christianity does not exclude it from being Christian.

Yes, it is Christian, the way it defines Christian, but not the way the term is normally defined.

I can say I'm eating a fish called Mahi-Mahi at a restaurant, but it's still dolphin, no matter what I call it.

You can eat salmon and I can eat trout and we are both eating fish

But really I don't care to debate it with you. It is an endless debate. Anyway, in its purest position the LDS Church is THE CHRISTIAN Church and all the rest are apostate pretenders.

No: Elohim having sex with Mary which produced Jesus Christ turns away from the Christian tradition. Bringing the mason ceremony (the great whore) into the church turn's it into what? certainly not a bride. Marrying other men's wives when the man is still alive and the man and wife are not divorced turns away from the Christian tradition.

[_krose]

I think some parts of the speech might actually help some EVs find a way to support him. I think the part, in particular, where he said that if he were to list out Mormon doctrines and explain and justify each one, all that would do is set him up for the very religious test that ought not to be applied, which would be wrong. I think his logic for accepting him based on the sincerity and general goodness of his religiously-derived moral beliefs was pretty good. Moderate EVs might well accept that logic. The really hard-core "Mormons are tools of Satan" types won't, but then there's probably nothing Romney could have said to win them over.

He has no business appealing to the "no religious test" clause of the constitution. It in no way applies to a candidate when running for office. It says that all office-holders must take an oath to uphold the constitution, but that no religious test can be required to hold the office.

Voters are free to apply any test they darn well please when they cast their ballots, religious or otherwise. I imagine he already knows that, but is using it anyway because it sounds good. Maybe he hopes voters will actually think the constitution forbids them to consider his religion.

[_SatanWasSetUp]

My biggest problem with a Mormon president is what happens if they get a calling in their ward that conflicts with their presidential duties. What happens if one year into his presidency Mitt is called as Elder's Quorum President? When will he have time to pass out home teaching assignments? Or god forbid he is called to Bishop. His entire Sunday would be shot as far as his work in the White House goes.

[_Some Schmo]

The whole debate over whether Mormons are christian or not is just silly. Of course they're christians. If you call yourself a follower of Christ, you're a christian, no matter how you interpret the myth.

What's funny about it is the idea that there some kind of pride associated with calling yourself a christian. What a joke. If Mormons want it, who cares about the specifics? It's like accusing a nerd of not being a true Trekkie if all he's seen is the Next Generation. What difference does the version of the myth they follow make?

[_The Nehor]

That speech made me sick to my stomach.

Freedom requires religion just as religion requires freedom. Freedom opens the windows of the soul so that man can discover his most profound beliefs and commune with God. Freedom and religion endure together, or perish alone.

That has to be one of the dumbest things I've ever heard a politician say (and I've heard most of Bush's speeches, so that's really saying something). If this guy gets elected, my family and I may have to move to the Bahamas.

Bye.

[_The Nehor]

My biggest problem with a Mormon president is what happens if they get a calling in their ward that conflicts with their presidential duties. What happens if one year into his presidency Mitt is called as Elder's Quorum President? When will he have time to pass out home teaching assignments? Or god forbid he is called to Bishop. His entire Sunday would be shot as far as his work in the White House goes.

I'm pretty sure he won't have a heavy calling load.