Ray A wrote:As far as personal insults are concerned, surely you can't argue that Pahoran's are any worse than the personal insults we've seen here against Mormons, and individual Mormons? Isn't that kind of looking at it from one point of view? When people write "F*** Christ, F*** Joseph Smith, F*** Mormonism, and post ridiculing cartoons of the prophets, what do you expect people like Pahoran to do, lie down and die in the gutter?
Hey, I resemble that statement.
I wrote, "What *if* I said", I haven't yet written it in full context. Give me some more time and I probably will.
War? I still don't see a war.
Pahoran, or whoever this guy is over at MAAD is protected by MAAD, nobody will ever be really able to tell him what for.
Jason Bourne and Nehor - I think you want to say F* you to people like me. I wish you'd just out and say it, rather than hide behind the guise of being so "holier than thou". I think it would be good therapy for you. Unfortunately, I think you'd have to deal with your own guilt for doing so. Just come out and say it, you won't hurt my feelings.
Gaz, well, the guy is just nutts. Hardcore. He'd dress up as an Ex-Mo and cut off your head if he could, all in defending the Corporation. The guy seems to have no sense of compassion as it is all black and white. Obey, kill for the Lord, burn the wicked, et all. The only other place I've seen this kind of hard core militant Mormon was on the Mormon Zion's Camp boards. Those white and delightsome Mormons over there remind me of a bunch of Danites.
Harmony and Liz, you fence sitters. You mingle with both sides and do nothing. At least your messages don't start out with personal attacks and character assassinations.
Jason Bourne or “Mr Strawman", who will call you an idiot, a dumb ass and other personal attacks to get his point across. What war is that?
Charity? My favorite insane "fingers-in-her-ears" TBM? "That has already been debated" and "Oh, and we have the truth on our side." Absolutely worthless. Has no opinion of anything except quoting everyone else.
Mercury? I don't even know where you stand dude.
Daniel C. Peterson? Well, his stint here was short as he had no power here. He had no hidden moderators who could squelch those in opposition to him. He had to run back to the safety of MAAD.
What war?
There is no goddamn war.
There is just straight up bickering and personal attacks on both sides. And even the positive messages written by Shades, or Mr. Scratch, or even Runtu (dude, next to scratch, and because I personally met you, I have a lot of respect for you), there is NO WAR.
Look, even if you debate down to the longest wind of any kind of item - such as Joseph Smith, was he really a martyr? You will find that there is NO WIN. You finally have to agree to disagree.
Mormons will always start with the fact that the "Church Is True" (Patent Pending) and work from there. Ex-Mormons will always start with logic and evidence and work from there. In the end, it will always be the position of the Mormon to defend the faith - even in the face of all evidences; the Trump card of "I know the Church is True" will be played. You cannot win, there is no goddamn win!
When I left the Church and started reading the dreaded Anti-Mormon literature, I still had a tinge in my heart that I might find something that would lead me back to the truth. And what I found was evidence after evidence that showed just how much of a fraud it really was. Compound that after years of studying hundreds of facets of Mormon history, there was no way I could ever say it was true again.
If you want to look at it as a war, then look at it from their (Mormon) perspective. They are so caught up in the myth of Mormonism that they see themselves as "God Warriors".
Remember her?
I AM A GOD WARRIOR!!!
Or better yet for Mormons, they see themselves as Stripling Warriors.
They see the need to defend in an almost magical, mystical way that evidences or real truth cannot touch. They are beyond those barriers. Hell, I did it myself when I was hardcore TBM. I refused to look at the real evidence. I manufactured truth in my own mind and purposefully blocked out what I could not comprehend. The word we use now is “cognitive dissonance.” I would NOT see what I did NOT want to see.
I have been debating FOR Mormonism far far longer that I have ever debated against. I have never seen a win, ever. Period. The so-called “War” is a manufactured term placed into the heads of so-called “Apologists” to justify their way of looking at the world through Mormon Colored Glasses.
I have far more respect for Mormons who begin to look at the religion critically and begin to look over the dreaded “forbidden material”. It is far easier to live the fantasy that it is true than to examine the evidence and realize the emperor has no clothes. Once that realization has been made, there is no turning back. This, I believe, is the fear that Apologists live with. It drives them. They have to deal with the “Anti-Mormon” literature and because of this, they are more aware of the issues than your standard “Chapel Mormon”. People like DCP have to write ten thousand word documents that obfuscate, character assassinate, subject change and go off in a dozen different directions. It is done not only to confuse, but to help confuse and obfuscate not only others, but themselves. They do NOT want to arrive at the conclusion that the critic MAY be right. And people like DCP also have to always take the position that the Church Is True, otherwise, FARMS (or whatever the hell they want to call themselves now) may not get that $21 million dollars a year in funding – and DCP may end up on the line with his job. He has to defend, or he will loose it all.
Really, in the end, there is no war. There is only he said, she said, they said. Do we agree or do we agree to disagree? That is all.
