In Mormonism, Following Jesus Christ means being LDS

[_Mercury]

Get what I mean? Recently the Christmas letters have gone out like diaspora from my wifes 9 siblings and the FIL and MIL who are in SLC at the FHC. Enough acronyms?

So the letters have been chock full of platitudes about "learning the importance of following Christ. In reading this I pondered on what it was to follow Christ as a Mormon. In retrospect following Christ meant supporting Mormonism. At the core, you really DON'T support Christ as a Mormon if you don't pay your tithing...Jesus needs his ten percent. Getting married outside of teh temple? Jesus, through Joe and his other "representatives" said its the only way to truly follow Jesus.

Not baptised LDS? You arent following Jesus. The only way to truly Love Jesus is to be baptised a Mormon. Its THE ONLY WAY.

So all you Mormons out there, just remember - Without food storage, Sexual stupidity and blatant disregard for what constitutes Truth, you aren't following Christ!

Merry Effing Smithmas!

[_harmony]

Mormonism would be a lot more effective, if the members would actually live like Christians, instead of like Mormons.

[_Jason Bourne]

Mormonism would be a lot more effective, if the members would actually live like Christians, instead of like Mormons.

Christianity would be a lot more effective if members of Christian sects would actually live like Christians instead of whatever they live like.

I think most practicing Mormons try to be as much of a Christian as any other Christian.

We all need work.

[_sunstoned]

My mother, who lives three states away called me last night. She is concerned about my level of "activity". Her conversation with me drifted onto the subject of tithing. I let her know that I contribute to many charitable organizations. She said that was "nice", but it is paying tithing that will get you to the CK.

In my experience, this seems like a common thought patten with many members. Charity, and other Christ like actions as practiced by others are nice, but they somehow count less (or don't count) because they are not legitimized by membership in the Mormon church.

It is this type of elitist and exclusive type attitude that comes across to outsiders as condescending and judgmental.

[_harmony]

Mormonism would be a lot more effective, if the members would actually live like Christians, instead of like Mormons.

Christianity would be a lot more effective if members of Christian sects would actually live like Christians instead of whatever they live like.

I think most practicing Mormons try to be as much of a Christian as any other Christian.

We all need work.

I disagree, Jason. I think active Mormons are much more concerned about living like a Mormon (passing the TRI questions) than in living the gospel of Jesus Christ (loving one's neighbor, turning the other cheek, being kind to everyone). If it's not on the TRI, it doesn't get the emphasis that which is on the TRI gets.

[_moksha]

The opening post sounds better if you try to do it with a Peter Lorre imitation.
Too old time? Who is recent? Perhaps Ren from Ren and Stimpy?

[_Sethbag]

There's a very simple explanation of why Mormons don't value charitable donations to non-Mormon causes as much as tithing. That is that tithing to the Mormon church alone (as God's one true authorized church on Earth) is viewed as a commandment. That is, God is ordering you to pay it.

If you don't obey God's order, it really doesn't matter what else you do to earn brownie points in Heaven, because "obedience is the first law of Heaven". If you don't obey, which means in this case to pay, you're not worthy of entering the Celestial Kingdom. Because you're rebelling against God and not obeying his orders.

I see it as a red flag that Mormons see obedience to the Prophet on Earth, as God's representative, as the first law of heaven. You aren't worthy of heaven if you aren't obedient to the Prophet. It's that sort of a priori assumption of power and authority that bugs me. It trips my internal BS meter, which has grown surprisingly more sensitive in the last couple of years since I stopped believing. Believing meant following patterns of thought that numbed my BS meter and made it hard to notice. Not anymore.

[_Pokatator]

I think it was Gandhi, I am guessing a little, that said: "I like Christianity, I just don't like Christians". That brings up some thoughts in me and I believe there is some truth in it.

As to charitable giving, tithing or whatever the label. For my 35 years as a Mormon the church got their 10%, religiously. Other giving has pretty much nil. Did it hurt me? No. Did I miss any meals? No. Did I really go without anything that I really needed? No. Did I ever have a cold nights sleep or lack a roof over my head? No, not out of any need situation. Did I recent my giving? Not when I was active but, yes a little, when I first left the church.

For the last 20+ years I have continued the habit of charitable giving. I kept up the 10% giving habit upon leaving the church. But the money went to the United Way, Salvation Army, local food banks, some even to needy individuals, some larger charitable organizations, and I know many will think this is stupid but some went to various Christian organizations and elsewhere.

So again the questions. Did it hurt me? No. Did I miss any meals? No. Did I really go without anything that I really needed? No. Did I ever have a cold nights sleep or lack a roof over my head? Not out of any need situation. Did I recent it? No. Have I ever really gone without anything? No.

My point is that for the last 20 years I have remained somewhat of a generous giver, but the Mormon church haven't received any of my money except the Primary Children's has got a 100 dollars every year just like the Shriner's and others and I don't consider that money really going to the church. For the last 15 years I have been married to a more generous, giving and loving woman than I deserve. She gives a lot more than I do and also makes more money than I do, too. She gives 10% off the top to a Christian church. She gives to outside charities. Has 3 adopted children outside the USofA at like 35 or 36 dollars per month and each year it seems she wants to add another. Where a need comes up with someone she knows and cares about she sends money, food, other resources.

Last year we added another child going to college so we took a real close look at our budgeting and our giving. It shocked me and my wife more but we gave 18% last year out of our combined gross income. I know many will think that is stupid but again, I have no needs. I am fed. I have an upscale home. I drive nice stuff. I have many toys and wants fulfilled that I really don't need and even the wants that I have change. All my needs have always really been met. I have a great 401(k) and other investments. We help our kids and grandkids, so on and on. This practice has not hurt me a bit even though with a fresh look at this pattern of giving of ours we are scaling it back.

The point I am making is that the Mormons would call all this giving of mine, "good works", but in their eyes and view I am not giving anything because it is not going to their Mormon, Inc. In the Christian faiths that I am familiar with, my giving, even if I gave nothing to the their church, would be considered a "tithe" or offering in their eyes and in their view. Most Christian faiths do not stress or obligate a tithe or the 10%. The most "arm twisting" that I have ever seen from them about giving comes during the "sermon on the amount" or "giving program" or "budget meeting" and it is the suggestion that the most or the majority of your giving should be to the church that you regularly attend. The individual is urged to give what they are comfortable giving and it is OK with them. They value outside giving. Their emphasis is totally different than the Mormon church. I don't give to earn me anything or to gain me anything or to fulfill some individual organizations requirements or to save up for some reward in heaven.

I give because I can and want to. My life is not without problems, I personally have some critical health problems, my kids have been in trouble at times, the car has been wrecked, etc. etc. We are just an all-American family with everything in life that most everyone else has. None of this giving has shielded me from the problems of life or have I expected it too.

My last observation, my attitude about giving as a Mormon was to give 10%, fulfill the obligation and do no more but make sure it all goes to the church and then gain the rewards even if the the rewards are in the next life. My attitude outside of the Mormon church has been to continue to give and give out of a different set of motives that expects no rewards and the result is that without even noticing or knowing my giving has almost doubled.

Merry Smithmas, Pokatator

[_harmony]

There's a very simple explanation of why Mormons don't value charitable donations to non-Mormon causes as much as tithing. That is that tithing to the Mormon church alone (as God's one true authorized church on Earth) is viewed as a commandment. That is, God is ordering you to pay it.

I find the concept of living the gospel of Jesus Christ, as I understand it, to be much more complex than just giving 10% to the church, and that is what I find unforgivable about the LDS church. To the church, being kind to others is inconsequential. Loving one's neighbor is not important enough to be included in the TRI. Turning the other cheek is not required for entrance into the CK. How can a church that is supposedly founded by and led by Jesus Christ himself not include those basic concepts of godliness in its criteria for achieving the highest reward possible? That alone (nevermind my issues with the concept of authority, priesthood, and things attached thereto) calls into question the revelatory abilities of the so-called modern prophets. How could anyone in a leadership position miss these basic foundational doctrines?

[_ozemc]

I think it was Gandhi, I am guessing a little, that said: "I like Christianity, I just don't like Christians". That brings up some thoughts in me and I believe there is some truth in it.

As to charitable giving, tithing or whatever the label. For my 35 years as a Mormon the church got their 10%, religiously. Other giving has pretty much nil. Did it hurt me? No. Did I miss any meals? No. Did I really go without anything that I really needed? No. Did I ever have a cold nights sleep or lack a roof over my head? No, not out of any need situation. Did I recent my giving? Not when I was active but, yes a little, when I first left the church.

For the last 20+ years I have continued the habit of charitable giving. I kept up the 10% giving habit upon leaving the church. But the money went to the United Way, Salvation Army, local food banks, some even to needy individuals, some larger charitable organizations, and I know many will think this is stupid but some went to various Christian organizations and elsewhere.

So again the questions. Did it hurt me? No. Did I miss any meals? No. Did I really go without anything that I really needed? No. Did I ever have a cold nights sleep or lack a roof over my head? Not out of any need situation. Did I recent it? No. Have I ever really gone without anything? No.

My point is that for the last 20 years I have remained somewhat of a generous giver, but the Mormon church haven't received any of my money except the Primary Children's has got a 100 dollars every year just like the Shriner's and others and I don't consider that money really going to the church. For the last 15 years I have been married to a more generous, giving and loving woman than I deserve. She gives a lot more than I do and also makes more money than I do, too. She gives 10% off the top to a Christian church. She gives to outside charities. Has 3 adopted children outside the USofA at like 35 or 36 dollars per month and each year it seems she wants to add another. Where a need comes up with someone she knows and cares about she sends money, food, other resources.

Last year we added another child going to college so we took a real close look at our budgeting and our giving. It shocked me and my wife more but we gave 18% last year out of our combined gross income. I know many will think that is stupid but again, I have no needs. I am fed. I have an upscale home. I drive nice stuff. I have many toys and wants fulfilled that I really don't need and even the wants that I have change. All my needs have always really been met. I have a great 401(k) and other investments. We help our kids and grandkids, so on and on. This practice has not hurt me a bit even though with a fresh look at this pattern of giving of ours we are scaling it back.

The point I am making is that the Mormons would call all this giving of mine, "good works", but in their eyes and view I am not giving anything because it is not going to their Mormon, Inc. In the Christian faiths that I am familiar with, my giving, even if I gave nothing to the their church, would be considered a "tithe" or offering in their eyes and in their view. Most Christian faiths do not stress or obligate a tithe or the 10%. The most "arm twisting" that I have ever seen from them about giving comes during the "sermon on the amount" or "giving program" or "budget meeting" and it is the suggestion that the most or the majority of your giving should be to the church that you regularly attend. The individual is urged to give what they are comfortable giving and it is OK with them. They value outside giving. Their emphasis is totally different than the Mormon church. I don't give to earn me anything or to gain me anything or to fulfill some individual organizations requirements or to save up for some reward in heaven.

Wow! That's great you are able to give so much!

In my church, we view giving as more than just money. You can give of your time, talents, food, clothes, whetever.

Or not.

It's really between you and God.

While money and budgeting is talked about, and we do pass around a collection plate, it's more of depending on the Spirit to lead you to give what you can.

I give because I can and want to. My life is not without problems, I personally have some critical health problems, my kids have been in trouble at times, the car has been wrecked, etc. etc. We are just an all-American family with everything in life that most everyone else has. None of this giving has shielded me from the problems of life or have I expected it too.

My last observation, my attitude about giving as a Mormon was to give 10%, fulfill the obligation and do no more but make sure it all goes to the church and then gain the rewards even if the the rewards are in the next life. My attitude outside of the Mormon church has been to continue to give and give out of a different set of motives that expects no rewards and the result is that without even noticing or knowing my giving has almost doubled.

Merry Smithmas, Pokatator

And a very Merry Christmas to you!