Apologists and Critics at War?

[_moksha]

(I was hoping someone would come up with a list of other Mormon critics to be saved in the bunker)

Moksha, I too share your concern that there will be an insufficient number of Mormon critics remaining after this final solution, so I would propose adding Jersey Girl, Bond and Beastie, along with the already saved Blixa and Runtu. Will this be sufficient?

[_beastie]

Moksha, I too share your concern that there will be an insufficient number of Mormon critics remaining after this final solution, so I would propose adding Jersey Girl, Bond and Beastie, along with the already saved Blixa and Runtu. Will this be sufficient?

Hey, how come Blixa and Runtu got to go first???? I ain't no sloppy seconds, mister.

[_Livingstone22]

I had a brief association on MAD. Apparently, I walked onto their battlefield (assuming it was just a forum for thoughtful discussion and the study of Mormonism) when someone mistook me for a "critic" and opened fire. I am actually a practicing Mormon, but I have never seen such a terrible reaction from people. I'm absolutely disgusted and horrified at certain people on the MAD board, and I'm tired of all the cross-posts on this site. If I wanted to be on the battlefield, I would have stayed on MAD (where everyone is always mad--in both definitions of the word).

[_The Nehor]

Jason Bourne and Nehor - I think you want to say F* you to people like me. I wish you'd just out and say it, rather than hide behind the guise of being so "holier than thou". I think it would be good therapy for you. Unfortunately, I think you'd have to deal with your own guilt for doing so. Just come out and say it, you won't hurt my feelings.

It's a guise? ;)

If I wanted therapy I'd throw rocks at my neighbors whilst howling obscenities.

[_The Nehor]

For any apologists who care to answer this question:

1. Do you find it hypocritical to personally attack others?

2. Does this not go directly against Christ's teachings?

3. Don't misunderstand me. I'm not advocating taking abuse from others. I think that everyone has the right to defend themselves.

But why go on the attack?

It just isn't effective, in my opinion.

4. If you have, what you believe is "right on your side", shouldn't that be enough?

1. Hypocrisy is such a watered down and useless word on these boards that I think it has lost all meaning. Can we just accept that the only people who aren't hypocrites are those that have such ridiculously low standards that we probably wouldn't want to be around them.......

2. Woe unto ye scribes Pharisees hypocrites a generation of vipers shall not escape the damnation of hell. Tell the Fox...... Personal attacks????

3. The best defense is a good offense.

4. It obviously isn't enough. If it were none of us would be here. Either that or we're all weak-willed and everyone is seeking comfort in all the wrong places.

Took the liberty of adding numbers to your questions.

[_Yoda]

1. Hypocrisy is such a watered down and useless word on these boards that I think it has lost all meaning. Can we just accept that the only people who aren't hypocrites are those that have such ridiculously low standards that we probably wouldn't want to be around them.......

Yes, I can accept this. However, as a disciple of Christ, shouldn't you at least be attempting to follow his teachings, which includes avoiding hypocrisy? Obviously, yes, we are all going to falter and make mistakes. That's why the atonement is in place. However, there is a difference between owning up to the fact that you have made a mistake, and blatantly making that mistake, using the guise that "everybody does it". That is Satan's way, is it not?

2. Woe unto ye scribes Pharisees hypocrites a generation of vipers shall not escape the damnation of hell. Tell the Fox...... Personal attacks????

I'm not sure I understand your reference here. How is personally attacking someone following Christ's teachings? That's the question. Yes, Christ was no pansy. Yes, Christ lectured people and called them to repentance. However, He is God! Christ also taught us that we were to forgive everyone and "He would forgive who He would forgive." It is not your place, or mine, to call an individual you have no stewardship over to repentance. That stewardship extends to your family ONLY. You have no stewardship over anyone here.

3. The best defense is a good offense.

In football, maybe. In life? You are young. You have a lot to learn. It also sounds like you need to read the scriptures again...preferably the New Testament. The favorite example of apologists to use here is when Christ turned over the tables and became angry with the money changers in the temple. Was he on the offensive in this situation? No, he was not! He was on the defensive. He was defending the sanctity of His holy house. Also, this again addresses what I have already spoken to. According to Christ, himself, there are different rules for Christ than for us when it comes to taking aggressive action.

4. It obviously isn't enough. If it were none of us would be here. Either that or we're all weak-willed and everyone is seeking comfort in all the wrong places.

If having the gospel on your side isn't enough, then how can you claim it's true? If you can't effectively communicate what the gospel has to offer, then why is it imperative to tear someone else down? This makes no sense. Wouldn't it be better to communicate your understanding of the gospel clearly and effectively and let those who will accept it, accept, and those who won't, go in peace? Again, what do insults which tear down another's character achieve besides temporary gratification for you? And you claim to be a servant of the Lord. How is this congruent?

[_The Nehor]

1. Hypocrisy is such a watered down and useless word on these boards that I think it has lost all meaning. Can we just accept that the only people who aren't hypocrites are those that have such ridiculously low standards that we probably wouldn't want to be around them.......

Yes, I can accept this. However, as a disciple of Christ, shouldn't you at least be attempting to follow his teachings, which includes avoiding hypocrisy? Obviously, yes, we are all going to falter and make mistakes. That's why the atonement is in place. However, there is a difference between owning up to the fact that you have made a mistake, and blatantly making that mistake, using the guise that "everybody does it". That is Satan's way, is it not?

2. Woe unto ye scribes Pharisees hypocrites a generation of vipers shall not escape the damnation of hell. Tell the Fox...... Personal attacks????

I'm not sure I understand your reference here. How is personally attacking someone following Christ's teachings? That's the question. Yes, Christ was no pansy. Yes, Christ lectured people and called them to repentance. However, He is God! Christ also taught us that we were to forgive everyone and "He would forgive who He would forgive." It is not your place, or mine, to call an individual you have no stewardship over to repentance. That stewardship extends to your family ONLY. You have no stewardship over anyone here.

3. The best defense is a good offense.

In football, maybe. In life? You are young. You have a lot to learn. It also sounds like you need to read the scriptures again...preferably the New Testament. The favorite example of apologists to use here is when Christ turned over the tables and became angry with the money changers in the temple. Was he on the offensive in this situation? No, he was not! He was on the defensive. He was defending the sanctity of His holy house. Also, this again addresses what I have already spoken to. According to Christ, himself, there are different rules for Christ than for us when it comes to taking aggressive action.

4. It obviously isn't enough. If it were none of us would be here. Either that or we're all weak-willed and everyone is seeking comfort in all the wrong places.

If having the gospel on your side isn't enough, then how can you claim it's true? If you can't effectively communicate what the gospel has to offer, then why is it imperative to tear someone else down? This makes no sense. Wouldn't it be better to communicate your understanding of the gospel clearly and effectively and let those who will accept it, accept, and those who won't, go in peace? Again, what do insults which tear down another's character achieve besides temporary gratification for you? And you claim to be a servant of the Lord. How is this congruent?

Liz, please do not take what I said on this topic seriously, I was having fun responding with my most kneejerk response. Yes, people should try to avoid hypocrisy. I think it is probably an even higher virtue to never accuse anyone of hypocrisy again. The taunt flies back and forth here like mad. My quotation of Christ was random...I even got the wording wrong. The 'best defense' line was mostly irrelevant. Just seemed like it fit with the words you used.

I'm sorry I'm still young and I can't understand this grown up talk. I'm going to go play with my G.I. Joes and Legos now.

[_Yoda]

Liz, please do not take what I said on this topic seriously, I was having fun responding with my most kneejerk response. Yes, people should try to avoid hypocrisy. I think it is probably an even higher virtue to never accuse anyone of hypocrisy again. The taunt flies back and forth here like mad. My quotation of Christ was random...I even got the wording wrong. The 'best defense' line was mostly irrelevant. Just seemed like it fit with the words you used.

I'm sorry I'm still young and I can't understand this grown up talk. I'm going to go play with my G.I. Joes and Legos now.

I knew you were being a smart ass. I also knew, however, that based on your prior responses on the board, and also based on the reactions by other apologists, both here and on MAD, that there is a modicum of truth in your responses as well.

I'm hoping that my response will generate some thought. I'm curious as to how you and others may choose to respond in a more serious mode.

Now, you can go play Nintendo.

;)

[_Runtu]

I had a brief association on MAD. Apparently, I walked onto their battlefield (assuming it was just a forum for thoughtful discussion and the study of Mormonism) when someone mistook me for a "critic" and opened fire. I am actually a practicing Mormon, but I have never seen such a terrible reaction from people. I'm absolutely disgusted and horrified at certain people on the MAD board, and I'm tired of all the cross-posts on this site. If I wanted to be on the battlefield, I would have stayed on MAD (where everyone is always mad--in both definitions of the word).

Like you, I'm tired of the battle. I don't care what Juliann or DCP or anyone else is saying over there. If I want to read what they're saying, I'll go over there.

[_The Nehor]

Liz, please do not take what I said on this topic seriously, I was having fun responding with my most kneejerk response. Yes, people should try to avoid hypocrisy. I think it is probably an even higher virtue to never accuse anyone of hypocrisy again. The taunt flies back and forth here like mad. My quotation of Christ was random...I even got the wording wrong. The 'best defense' line was mostly irrelevant. Just seemed like it fit with the words you used.

I'm sorry I'm still young and I can't understand this grown up talk. I'm going to go play with my G.I. Joes and Legos now.

I knew you were being a smart ass. I also knew, however, that based on your prior responses on the board, and also based on the reactions by other apologists, both here and on MAD, that there is a modicum of truth in your responses as well.

I'm hoping that my response will generate some thought. I'm curious as to how you and others may choose to respond in a more serious mode.

Now, you can go play Nintendo.

;)

I would say there is a modicum of truth in some of my responses. Some of them were useless though. I gotta go.....Sesame Street is on.