Is the church distancing itself--from itself?

[_personage]

Mitt always talks about all of the people who would like him to distance himself from his faith. Then he makes some remark about how that's not going to happen. He is almost as good as Hinkley when it comes to the art of spin.

[_charity]

"We believe, as other Christians believe and as Paul wrote, that God is the father of all. That means that all beings were created by God and are his spirit children. Christ, on the other hand, was the only begotten in the flesh and we worship him as the son of God and the savior of mankind. Satan is the exact opposite of who Christ is and what he stands for."

Wouldn't this then say that Satan is a fictional charactor???????????

Or am I just so daft that, that is what I depict from that?

Pirate.

Yes, you are daft. God is the father of all. ALL. EVERYONE. Satan included. Jesus if His Only Begotten. Satan is the opposite, not begotten. Not fictional.

[_guy sajer]

"We believe, as other Christians believe and as Paul wrote, that God is the father of all. That means that all beings were created by God and are his spirit children. Christ, on the other hand, was the only begotten in the flesh and we worship him as the son of God and the savior of mankind. Satan is the exact opposite of who Christ is and what he stands for."

Wouldn't this then say that Satan is a fictional charactor???????????

Or am I just so daft that, that is what I depict from that?

Pirate.

Yes, you are daft. God is the father of all. ALL. EVERYONE. Satan included. Jesus if His Only Begotten. Satan is the opposite, not begotten. Not fictional.

Satan not fictional? And your evidence for this is . . . ?

You'd think that after thousands upon thousands of years, there'd be at least some evidence for Ol' Scratch.

The only thing that is factual is the rank superstition on display for those cowering masses claiming the existence of some malevolent being whispering in folks' ear to get them to do "bad" things (bad being usually defined as having something to do with sex).

[_Mister Scratch]

"We believe, as other Christians believe and as Paul wrote, that God is the father of all. That means that all beings were created by God and are his spirit children. Christ, on the other hand, was the only begotten in the flesh and we worship him as the son of God and the savior of mankind. Satan is the exact opposite of who Christ is and what he stands for."

Wouldn't this then say that Satan is a fictional charactor???????????

Or am I just so daft that, that is what I depict from that?

Pirate.

Yes, you are daft. God is the father of all. ALL. EVERYONE. Satan included. Jesus if His Only Begotten. Satan is the opposite, not begotten. Not fictional.

Satan not fictional? And your evidence for this is . . . ?

You'd think that after thousands upon thousands of years, there'd be at least some evidence for Ol' Scratch.

<Ahem> C'mon, Guy, what am I, chopped liver?

[_Rollo Tomasi]

God is the father of all. ALL. EVERYONE. Satan included.

In other words, folks, yes, Jesus and Lucifer are brothers ... despite the LDS spokesperson's best efforts not to admit it.

[_the road to hana]

God is the father of all. ALL. EVERYONE. Satan included.

In other words, folks, yes, Jesus and Lucifer are brothers ... despite the LDS spokesperson's best efforts not to admit it.

It isn't just that it's a fundamental principle of Mormonism. It's that the fraternal relationship is emphasized, as noted even in the Primary lesson above.

Good thing Huckabee didn't ask about Satan having priesthood. The brother stuff was difficult enough.

[_mledbetter]

Mitt Romney is making the rounds of the morning talk shows this morning in the wake of Mike Huckabee's recent question, which will run in an interview in the Sunday New York Times Magazine this weekend.

"Doesn't Mormonism believe that Jesus and the devil are brothers?

Huckabee's question elicited a carefully worded statement from LDS Church spokeswoman Kim Farah:

"We believe, as other Christians believe and as Paul wrote, that God is the father of all. That means that all beings were created by God and are his spirit children. Christ, on the other hand, was the only begotten in the flesh and we worship him as the son of God and the savior of mankind. Satan is the exact opposite of who Christ is and what he stands for."

Huckabee's question is being characterized as a "smear" by Farah and others.

I don't know about anyone else here, but in my own experience being raised LDS, the teaching that Jesus and Lucifer were brothers was fundamental. Chapter 3 of Gospel Principles puts it this way:

A Savior and Leader Was Needed

When the plan for our salvation was presented to us in the spirit world, we were so happy that we shouted for joy (see Job 38:7).

We understood that we would have to leave our heavenly home for a time. We would not live in the presence of our heavenly parents. While we were away from them, all of us would sin and some of us would lose our way. Our Heavenly Father knew and loved each one of us. He knew we would need help, so he planned a way to help us.

We needed a Savior to pay for our sins and teach us how to return to our Heavenly Father. Our Father said, "Whom shall I send?" (Abraham 3:27). Two of our brothers offered to help. Our oldest brother, Jesus Christ, who was then called Jehovah, said, "Here am I, send me" (Abraham 3:27).

Jesus was willing to come to the earth, give his life for us, and take upon himself our sins. He, like our Heavenly Father, wanted us to choose whether we would obey Heavenly Father's commandments. He knew we must be free to choose in order to prove ourselves worthy of exaltation. Jesus said, "Father, thy will be done, and the glory be thine forever" (Moses 4:2).

Satan, who was called Lucifer, also came, saying, "Behold, here am I, send me, I will be thy son, and I will redeem all mankind, that one soul shall not be lost, and surely I will do it; wherefore give me thine honor" (Moses 4:1). Satan wanted to force us all to do his will. Under his plan, we would not be allowed to choose. He would take away the freedom of choice that our Father had given us. Satan wanted to have all the honor for our salvation.

Discussion

Who is our leader and Savior?
Who besides Jesus wanted to be our leader?

Jesus Christ Became Our Chosen Leader and Savior
After hearing both sons speak, Heavenly Father said, "I will send the first" (Abraham 3:27).

http://www.LDS.org/library/display/0,49 ... -6,00.html

When asked directly this morning by interviewers whether Huckabee's question as correct, Romney dodged a direct response and said that "his church had put that matter to rest."

But had it? On its face, it looks like Romney, and the LDS Church, are distancing themselves from a position that was taught as a fundamental gospel principle, and trying to make it appear as though they didn't really say, or mean, that Jesus and Satan were "brothers."

Romney doesn't have to distance himself from his religion. The church is doing a pretty good job distancing itself--from itself.

The statement by the Church was made for people who could catch the obvious inference: "God is the father of all." Why hand ammunition to our enemies when you can hand them rope? Let them look silly getting all upset about a supposed denial of Huckabee's statement and put it into a reasonable light at the same time.

[_the road to hana]

The statement by the Church was made for people who could catch the obvious inference: "God is the father of all." Why hand ammunition to our enemies when you can hand them rope?]

It's actually a "yes" or "no" question.

The LDS Church unequivocally has taught that Jesus and Satan/Lucifer are brothers. It's part of LDS scripture.

"God is the father of all" would mean different things to non-LDS Christians than it would to Mormons.

I try to imagine what would happen if a non-LDS candidate for president were asked a similar question. Let's say a Catholic candidate for president like Joe Biden or Christopher Dodd were asked if the Catholic Church believed that their communion is really body and blood. Would we expect them to deny it? Would we be surprised or disappointed if a Catholic spokesperson sidestepped the issue?

People in Iowa, and elsewhere, are really looking for a person of principle. And this is where I think Mitt is tripping up. He's already got a problem with having illegal immigrants mowing his lawn until last week. Now, the non-LDS American public is just looking to see whether or not he's a man of principle and conviction. So when he's asked specifically about his beliefs, waffling on the issue looks deceptive, and actually probably costs him more votes.

Why would the LDS Church not want to give a direct and correct answer to the question? They put a lot of time, effort and expense into evangelizing the globe. If a prospective convert asked the missionaries if Mormonism taught that Jesus and Satan were brothers, would the missionaries similarly waltz around the question?

[_Blixa]

Satan is the opposite, not begotten.

Wait, what's the opposite of begotten? Not begotten? Because if Jesus is the only begotten, then all of us are not begotten (the opposite of begotten), too. So we're all like Satan. Except not. Somehow.

[_mledbetter]

The statement by the Church was made for people who could catch the obvious inference: "God is the father of all." Why hand ammunition to our enemies when you can hand them rope?]

It's actually a "yes" or "no" question.

The LDS Church unequivocally has taught that Jesus and Satan/Lucifer are brothers. It's part of LDS scripture.

"God is the father of all" would mean different things to non-LDS Christians than it would to Mormons.

I try to imagine what would happen if a non-LDS candidate for president were asked a similar question. Let's say a Catholic candidate for president like Joe Biden or Christopher Dodd were asked if the Catholic Church believed that their communion is really body and blood. Would we expect them to deny it? Would we be surprised or disappointed if a Catholic spokesperson sidestepped the issue?

People in Iowa, and elsewhere, are really looking for a person of principle. And this is where I think Mitt is tripping up. He's already got a problem with having illegal immigrants mowing his lawn until last week. Now, the non-LDS American public is just looking to see whether or not he's a man of principle and conviction. So when he's asked specifically about his beliefs, waffling on the issue looks deceptive, and actually probably costs him more votes.

Why would the LDS Church not want to give a direct and correct answer to the question? They put a lot of time, effort and expense into evangelizing the globe. If a prospective convert asked the missionaries if Mormonism taught that Jesus and Satan were brothers, would the missionaries similarly waltz around the question?

That's funny because I don't remember anybody asking the Church a question unless you are counting Huckabee's rhetorical question to his EV supporters.

It's true that Romney seems to falter on the immigration debate, but let's not forget how much more vulnerable Huckabee is on that same issue. Even Rush Limbaugh, who has tried to stay neutral in this whole thing, was saying as much on his show today.