Why They Leave

[_MishMagnet]

Thanks for the support, guys. My parents have really tried, they have. One of the small gestures that means so much to me is that my dad went and bought a coffee maker to have at his house for my nevermo husband. We have been able to maintain a good relationship. It's the small subtle things like the Ensign on top of the present that do jab at me. My husband asked if he should throw it away for me but I'm going to look through it at least so I can tell my mom I did. She wrote me a note about some "Good, Better Best" talk that is being widely discussed.

In any case, I did marry a nevermo who I met after leaving the church. I can be myself around him and also his family and this has been wonderful. My mother in law is a dear woman who has never made me feel less-than. My own mother is a dear woman too who does love me and my dad is probably the best person I've ever known. There is so much that is unspoken, though, when we're together. Last year I tried to talk outright to them about church and it ended up in bitter words on both sides and then we all agreed to not speak of it again.

[_Ten Bear]

It's part of the dicotomy (sp?) type thinking in the church. Pres. Hinckley has said, many times, either it is true, or it is a fraud. That doesn't leave much for middle ground. Especially in light of last weeks EQ lesson where we are to accept everything, I mean EVERYTHING on faith. The Bretheren are in control.

And that is how I differentiate the teachings of men. Pres Hinckley has no business laying down the law. It's not his to lay down. This kind of thinking is men talking, not God.

I feel it's the church itself that imposed this "all or nothing" way of thinking on the member.

That has "man" written all over it.

You know, I was just thinking, doesn't one of the temple recommend questions say something about affiliating with groups who go "against" the teachings of the church? Isn't being empathetic with such groups grounds for a court of love? The church is the one with a chip on it's shoulder, the way I see it. "You're either with us, or against us."

[_Blixa]

Damn MishMag---that's sad. I've been trying to write a response for several minutes now. I keep erasing it because it sounds so unkind. But I'm really sickened by the story of the woman who assumed her son would be providing grandchildren for her (for her, not for other reasons, like having the material resources and actual desire to raise children) on some kind of schedule. It just deflated me; it took me back to my young adulthood so forcefully.

I really appreciate the efforts of Dehlin and the things I've read here (and elsewhere) by still attending Mormons trying to make it work. I find it fascinating and interesting and also something I can understand in particular situations. At the same time though I can't "support" it as some kind of "movement" if that makes sense.

[_Abinadi's Fire]

Their lives, their families are more being held hostage than anything else.

Exactly.

Of course, saying this places you in the same category as this guy:

I do not teach this people to bind themselves down under the foolish ordinances and performances which are laid down by ancient priests, to usurp power and authority over them, to keep them in ignorance, that they may not lift up their heads, but be brought down according to thy words. Ye say that this people is a free people. Behold, I say they are in bondage.

This guy is the bad guy?

[_BishopRic]

I remembered one thing he said at the end that I wanted to comment on. As he was addressing those having the "challenges," he said (paraphrasing), "consider what other church is more true," or "is there another church that has more to offer?"

I hear this comment often, and it drives me crazy!

I understand from inside the box this is a natural question, but I think it is common for us to actually question the paradigm of "religion" altogether. The idea of God talking to very few people (usually men) throughout history, expecting them to somehow relay "his desires" to all of mankind through the written word, subject to all sorts of mistakes and interpretations...well, I just highly doubt that is how a loving God would run a world!

I have missed a certain sense of community since leaving. But I have found many other service groups I get involved in that replaces that for me...and I find a sense of freedom and exhilaration in not being tied to any dogma whatsoever. I've come to hate labels, and find complete contentment in not knowing the things I used to "know."

In other words, I am not compelled in the least to join another "church" that might restrict me on my potential spiritual growth and association with many types of people.

But that's just me.

[_Blixa]

I remembered one thing he said at the end that I wanted to comment on. As he was addressing those having the "challenges," he said (paraphrasing), "consider what other church is more true," or "is there another church that has more to offer?"

I hear this comment often, and it drives me crazy!.

LOL, I know. I'm not a believer, but hey, I think some eastern religious philosophies are "more true" (probably the ones that eschew a notion of a final truth entirely) and frankly I can think of lots of other churches that do have more to offer: more genuine community, less anti-gay fulminating, less misogyny, less racist history, less judgementalism, better architecthure, better art, better literature, more beautiful rituals, etc. It would not be a hard list to come up with.

[_malkie]

I remembered one thing he said at the end that I wanted to comment on. As he was addressing those having the "challenges," he said (paraphrasing), "consider what other church is more true," or "is there another church that has more to offer?"

I hear this comment often, and it drives me crazy!

I understand from inside the box this is a natural question, but I think it is common for us to actually question the paradigm of "religion" altogether. The idea of God talking to very few people (usually men) throughout history, expecting them to somehow relay "his desires" to all of mankind through the written word, subject to all sorts of mistakes and interpretations...well, I just highly doubt that is how a loving God would run a world!

I have missed a certain sense of community since leaving. But I have found many other service groups I get involved in that replaces that for me...and I find a sense of freedom and exhilaration in not being tied to any dogma whatsoever. I've come to hate labels, and find complete contentment in not knowing the things I used to "know."

In other words, I am not compelled in the least to join another "church" that might restrict me on my potential spiritual growth and association with many types of people.

But that's just me.

I have also heard this said, and have asked: "what other religions do you know anything about?" My question is usually answered by a lot of vague mumblings.

Not suggesting that this is true of anyone in particular, but it seems to me that a lot of people who make the argument that "it may not be perfect, but it's the best church there is" have never seriously investigated other religions.